Deep Space 9: What You Leave Behind (obligatory spoilker warning)

Okay, so the final episode aired and we’re back to the beginning again on Spike TV. A couple of questions for consideration:

Would O’Brien really be invited to teach at the Academy? He’s not an officer.

Why would the Founders so blatantly and overtly turn their backs on their Cardassian allies and fawn over the Breen? Surely they would know better than to completely snub the Cardies. I never understood the reasoning behind that. It was not diplomatic, to say the least. And how come the female changeling had the same face as Odo? I thought they were better at faces than he was, but she had the same features as Odo did. And is joining the Link a sexual thing? They seemed to imply that with the FC and Odo, but with Laas, it was more of a fellowhip thing.

I’m trying to remember if Winn ever personally ran into Dukat. I must assume no, since she didn’t recognize him when he came to her as a Bajoran, even with that distinctive voice. But surely a former concentration camp prisoner would recognize Hitler, even if he was disguised?

Sarah told Sisko he would know nothing but sorrow if he married Kassidy. Yet, from what I remember, he seems quite okay with joining the prophets, since for him, time will have no meaning. Kassidy is the one who will deal with the sorrow. (I’ve taped the episodes but not yet watched the finale. Had to break for Lost, you know.)

I want a DS9 movie. I know that won’t happen, but I still want one.

Why would you need to be an officer to teach? He’s one of the most experienced people in starfleet, presumably that would be a better qualification to teach?

me too

For some reason I thought only officers taught military academies. Is this incorrect?

I thought I’d chime in with something here. Joining the GREAT link is a different thing from just linking with another changeling. I’m not going to comment on the implications of linking one-to-one, but as far as the Great link goes…

That isn’t exactly clear to us Solids… :wink: but I always assumed it meant that the Great Link is death and reincarnation for a changeling. The precisely identical individual will never emerge again, although aspects of what made that particular changeling unique (if anything) will spread through the Link.

Thus, in the finale of DS9, Odo was leaving Kira forever, and he knew it. :frowning: On the other hand, hopefully once they’ve integrated Odo’s perspective, the changelings will get a long-overdue attitude adjustment on the subject of “Solids” :smiley:

Nothing canon that I’m aware of in the Trek universe.

In the real world, I don’t know about military acadamies, but my Dad was teaching in his specialty at a huge multi national corporation. He didn’t have a degree, his position was based on life experience in that field.

They could certainly give Miles a promotion if it was required by regulations… god knows he’s earned a field commission several times over in my book!

On the other hand, Starfleet is not primarily a military institution, as several notable officers have pointed out at length. Who knows if they’ve chosen to hold with this particular tradition… without looking at the Academy regulations, we’re unlikely to ever know.

The Founders look like Odo becuase they want to make Odo feel like he’s one of them. (Also it’s a good cue for the viewer that they’re the same sort of thing as Odo is.)

I’d love a DS9 movie. A good one at least. I have no particular faith that it can be done well.

Starfleet obviously isn’t directly analagous to the militaries of today and seem to be a lot more egalitarian. If 24th Century officers are doing the equivalent of swabbing the decks on the Enterprise-D (which is to be assumed since we never saw any non-coms), it makes a certain amount of sense that the Chief wouldn’t be denied an opportunity to teach what he knows as a twenty year plus veteran.

The Cardassians were never more than a subject race and a means to an end so when they didn’t hold up their end of the bargain, the Breen were brought in as allies on equal footing to try to salvage their operation.

Solidarity. They wanted Odo to feel welcome and a part of their society so they mimiced his form.

Saying it was sexual would be anthropomorphizing and oversimplifying it… in my mind, at least. It’s obviously a lot more as their natural state is a huge ocean of interlinked individuals but one on one, I suppose it’s whatever they make of it.

Dukat was an administrator, not a warlord and ruled over Bajor from orbit, not from an office on the ground so it’s not guaranteed his face was even recognizable to the normal Bajoran by the time they pulled out. Plus, people generally take others at face value – why would Kai Winn ever expect to run into Dukat as a Bajoran?

Originally, the finale was going to be much more final with Sisko pretty much dying, or joining the Prophets for good. Avery Brooks didn’t like the idea of a black man deserting his pregnant wife and son though and demanded the ending be changed to the much more ambiguous one that was eventually aired.

With that being said, he’s still going to miss the first years of Jake’s adulthood and the birth and formative years of his second child and family is obviously very important to him. Sure, it won’t last long for him subjectively but it’s still years (decades?) he won’t get back and that probably won’t sit well with him either.

He’ll suffer in his own way.

I’d prefer something like a mini-series as it wouldn’t lend itself too well to just a two hour movie. Never going to happen though.


But when Kassidy asked him when he’d be back, he said, “In ten years, or yesterday.” No sorrow for him, since he can come back at any point in time and won’t miss anything.

I never got that the Cardassians where a subject race to the Founders. They signed a treaty and were on equal footing. Maybe the FC began to lose patience with them because they were not winning the war as fast as she wanted, and brought in the Breen. But it wasn’t very smart to start treating the Cardies like second class citizens, destroying their cities and such. She should have known they would turn on them then.

That means he doesn’t know when he’ll be back due to the Prophet’s nonlinear existence, not that he can choose when to come back.

Granted, it was never stated outright and I could be wrong but I don’t believe I am. For one, Weyoun was always on at least equal footing with Damar and Dukat and often treated them as inferiors, even in their own space and on their own ships. If they were equals, do you think they would have accepted that?

Further, when the Breen were brought in, they were promised Cardassian star systems at war’s end. If they were allies, they would not have been the Female Founder’s to give and since the Cardassians never liked the Breen to begin with, I don’t see them volunteering their own territory either.

Remember, Weyoun was surprised because he thought he would have control of Cardassia and Earth. Then the FC confided to Weyoun that she would promise the whole Alpha Quadrant to the Breen if it would keep them happy and willing to die for the Dominion.

I can’t see that the Founders, with just the Jem H’Dar as their soldiers, would have gotten to be such a power in the Gamma Quadrant if they are so ready and willing to screw over their allies.

Ezri is so hot.

The Cardassians were pretty much finished as a military power in the quadrant. They had been defeated by the federation, were being invaded by the Klingons and were generally in decline. This is why Dukat brokered a deal with the Founders. The Founders had most of the cards as the Cardassians needed them much more than the Founders needed the Cardassians. The power imbalance went even more in the favor of the Founders once they had establishes a military presence on the Cardassian side of the wormhole.

The Breen on the other hand were needed by the Founders. They had been cut off from reinforcements and their enemies were knocking out more and more of their military infrastructure. The inclusion of the Breen in the Founders forces saved their asses and kept the war going. Thus the Breen had much more power and influence than the Cardassians.

Mind you they were stupid to grind them under heel to the point where they rebelled.

Again showing that they don’t seem to be allies but just foot soldiers and a means to an end. Speaking of which, were there any Cardassians present at the treaty signing at the end of the war? If there weren’t, that would seem to give further indication of their status as a subject race.

I have the DS9 Companion and will have to leaf through it later to see if any of the backstage notes clear this up.

I had wondered if it wasn’t simply a huge tactical mistake on the Founders part due to not really understanding us solids.

I seem to remember several eps discussing how different their normal outlook is.

Just a thought.

…or what **Wanderers **said. Thanks.

Not true. Shortly after the Romulans arrived in TNG they have a follow up episode. A woman arrives from Star Fleet to root out Romulan spies/sympathizers in this McCarthyese episode. While she interrogated a crewman who had lied by saying his grandfather was a Vulcan, when he was in fact a Romulan, Picard asked him why he enlisted and didn’t go to Star Fleet.

As for O’Brian I don’t think he’d be teaching an academic course. Star Fleet is a military academy so I imagine in addition to academic studies the students would have to undergo some sort of actual military training. That means marches, tactics, and other physical training.


Picard is also on record as saying that StarFleet is primarily an exploring organisation and not specificly military.

Trust me, as far back as Phil Farrands Nit Pickers Guild, we’ve been arguing the inconsistancies of StarFleet as military or not in all the eps, movies, and previous series. There is no solid fact or canonical statement that can prove one way or the other.

FTR, I’m leaning towards it being military. It fits closer with what we’ve seen. But, canon is as canon does. (I was one of the first group to join the Nitpickers Guild way, way back with just such an argument.)

Screw Roddenberry in his ear; Starfleet is a military organization.

I was unaware of Tarses (the quarter-Romulan) being a crewman… good catch.