And yet, if the world was set up as you wish it to be, as far as you were concerned everyone would speak the same language, practice the same religion, and eat the same foods. Since you’d be barred from visiting places with other ‘cultures’ you wouldn’t know a damn thing about them.
Let’s see…
Yesterday I went into NYC. Just walking one mile through Chelsea, I passed by three Cuban cafes, a Cajun restuarant, and a whole bunch of Chinese take-out places. Despite this varied fare, I decided to eat at a place called Cafeteria. You see, I’ve been having a hankering for fried chicken and waffles.
Right now, I just finished a giant cheeseburger and frenchfries meal while listening to jazz on the stereo. My feet are clad in Chinese Mary Janes (aren’t they cute!) I think I may rent one of my favorite movies tonight: Blues Brothers. Man, those white boys can get down.
If I were white and inclined to live in Honktonia (love that!), would I have experiences like the kind I’ve had over the past two days?
I think you need a laser to get pure red or green, (or any pure frequency light), by rigid scientific standards.
The point was supposed to be that red and green aren’t useless classifications because it’s difficult to define them in a way that most things would qualify exactly. Just because you can’t define a race in a way that most people would qualify exactly likewise doesn’t make it a useless classification.
I think the key word in your statement is “utopia”. Nobody hopes to achieve utopia. There’s WN nordic types who don’t even like Greeks or Italians. As defined, (to the extent it is), White Nationalism is about as idealistic as it can realistically get, (then about one or two more clicks beyond).
Current trends AFAIK predict that whites will be a minority in the U.S. as soon as 2040. Existing minorities in the U.S. are politically organized by race. Some of us are just working that trajectory, it’s not a lot more complicated than that.
As the largest groups, though, whites would still be a plurality. So if you’re argiung that they’d become disenfranchised, I think you’re way off. If you’re suggesting whites would lose their distinct cultural identity, I guess you’re right since it doesn’t exist in the first place.
I’ve just gone through this entire thread, and really enjoyed it.
Well, obviously not all of it.
I have a question for Millen. I believe you said something to the effect that people prefer to associate with other people most like themselves (pardon me for not finding the exact quote).
So, what are some of the characteristics of people most like you?
And if I may ask a personal question, what part of Ireland?
What other way is there to take it but literally. How is definition by “competition” to be taken literally?
I’m still waiting for one of you nazi-types to artculate a meaningful definition of any sort. Your “legal” definition is still completely useless and provies no way to determine who is in or out of a specific group.
Race isn’t genetic or biological. There is no biological classification as race. There is nothing in the human genome which designates “race.” And yes, obviously racists do think that race is biological because otherwise they would have no concern about the “mixing” of said “races.”
Yeah, the “crowd” which actually knows something about human biology. You say you don’t think race is biological (which it isn’t) and then you sneer at those who agree that it isn’t biological. It isn’t partially biological either. it is 100% based on ignorant social groupings based on superficial physical characteristics. Skin color is no more of a “racial” characateristic than hair color.
So is a grouping of you with me, or Brittny Spears with Justin Timberlake, or Jackie Chan with Bruce Lee or Michael Jordan with Colin Powell. ALL biological definitions of race are complete garbage.
As opposed to all those big bright lines in your “cultural” definitions? :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, there is nothing else to base it on so you’re left with no definition whatever.
There’s not any edge between races because there is no such thing as races. It’s a completely arbitrary classification rooted in tribalistic ignorance.
What is an “Asian,” btw? Is an Israeli Jew with light skin the same race as a Punjabi with dark skin?
Superficial physical characteristics do not qualify as a “race.”
I have a question for you. I have some relatives who adopted a black baby a few years ago. This little girl has been completely raised by whites in an almost totally white community with little or no exposure to “black” culture. I sshe black or is she white?
Oh…and that thing about “whites” becoming a minority? So what if they do? Explain to me why I should care.
The reason I used the “racial/ethnic” thingy when referring to Whites was to be inclusive. Some people think Whites are a race, some think they are an ethnic group and others don’t know.
You got me; I didn’t put much thought into your question. If you had given me another option suck as I don’t know or it’s too complex for me to define, I would have chosen that one.
I don’t think that I could ever come up with a complete definition of White Culture. It’s too complex for me. Pardon me, while I point out the obvious. This issue of defining Whiteness is a red herring. In my opinion, the overwhelming majority of Americans know who White people are. If White people don’t exist then why does the U.S. Government count them in the Census?
Whites are neither better nor worse than other groups.
I fear that some time in the future Whites will no longer exist on the planet Earth. These two issues could cause my fear to become reality:
Non-White immigration into White nations.
Low birth rate among Whites
A nation of our own would solve the first and then give us the opportunity to work on the second.
I would have liked that when I was a teenager, too. Unfortunately, getting beat up was all too real a part of my day-to-day life, and remember, I’m a white woman, and I was living in a small town at the time. The people beating me up were white, too, as was the one who pulled a knife on me once.
And I would like a job where it isn’t assumed I’ll answer the phones, even when I’m getting paid to be a programmer. If this is a legitimate fear of yours, I’d like to know where it comes from. Given that unemployment rates for minorities are much higher than they are for whites, I find that hard your fear a tad unrealistic. What field are you in?
You know, that I have to agree with. Please, though, do me a favor, and stay out of England?
You mentioned later that your parents were from the Republic of Ireland. Are you aware that it’s only in the past hundred or so years that the English haven’t considered the Irish a different race? That’s one of the things at the root of the troubles in Northern Ireland. The Irish were seen as a threat to American culture 100 years ago because they were Catholic, not Protestant. You wouldn’t have had an easier time of finding work 100 years ago in the United States. Instead, you would have become all too familiar with the phrase “No Irish need apply.”
My opinion is born of harsh experience. By most measures, I fit the qualifications for your society not only in terms of skin tone and ethnic heritage, but also in terms of intelligence as measured by standard tests and general physical robustness. I want absolutely no part of it.
If you and Not Picard are serious about setting up a mono-racial, mono-cultural society, I strongly suggest you study Japan which is the closest thing I know of to such a society today. In particular, look at the Tokugawa era which lasted from 1651 until 1867. During that time, Japan deliberately closed itself off to almost all outside influences.
I have lived in a highly monocultural society, albeit not as a minority; I have also lived in the most multi-racial, multi-cultural state in the Union, Hawaii. Setting aside a few aberrations such as spam musubi (don’t ask!), I found Hawaii to have one of the most pleasant, and interesting cultures. As a result of the time I spent living there, as often as not I now put soy sauce on chicken breasts when I cook them (although not on sausages!), and I got to experience music and dance which are every bit as powerful as any European symphony or ballet. At church, after doing British style change-ringing, I would go into my church and hear prayers in Hawaiian as well as English. The Hawaiian culture I experienced was not a puree, with everything mashed together into a tasteless mash, but a rich stew, with distinct bits of flavor from dozens of culture. Anglo-American that I am, I could find an Episcopal church I felt at home in, and I liked the fact that another one I knew of was a few doors down from a Buddhist temple. One office I worked in was blessed by a Jewish rabbi, a Hawaiian kahuna, and an Episcopal priest. My personal take on things is that every culture I encounter, everything I learn about those who are different from me, even those I disagree with, enriches and strengthens me. If you are so weak as to be threatened by those things which differ from you, how can I offer you anything but pity?
CJ
I am reminded of a quote from Hitler, early in his career, when he accused a (fellow) Bavarian dissident of Marxism: “The only important revolutions are racial revolutions.”
Yet history is full of examples of different groups which might be (and have been) defined as separate “races,” yet who live together in the same society without competing along racial lines. Sometimes it takes a while. There was a time when the Irish in America stuck together because they were an oppressed and excluded minority. Nowadays, they have been so far accepted in our society that they hardly remember their Irishness except on St. Patrick’s Day. The rest of the time, they might compete or fight with other Americans as Catholics, or as workers, but not as Irishmen.
I live in Florida. Nevertheless, if you talk about establishing an independent all-white homeland in Idaho and Montana, I have a problem of that, because you are talking about taking a part of MY country and walking away with it. I had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. In my eyes, they might deserve to be honored for their courage and devotion, but the cause in which they fought does not deserve be honored in any way for any reason.
Maybe you should take a lesson from that. Some of your fellow White Nationalists are on a different wavelength from you. So what binds you together? Anything more than a shared fear and hatred of the “Other”?
Starting in 2000, the US Census allows people to self-identify race; something like 2.5% of people self-identified themselves with more than one race. From here, page 72 (warning! 3.3 MB PDF):
I’m assuming that that is a low estimate – many if not most African Americans in this country are of mixed race, I would assume the same about American Indians. The ethnic group Hispanic is really a conglomeration of many racial stocks if you want to use that term.
There are problems with depending on people to self-identify their race. It is pretty clear that if you are going to depend on that, and you manage to create your Pacific Northwest White Utopia, people will want to move there. The guards at the border will be required to present some type of racial test, and self-identification won’t help keep of mixed ethnic composition out. You need to present us with a more stringent requirement.
But has it not occurred to you that when whites are no longer the majority race in this country, no other race will be a majority either? The only thing that unites non-white Americans against whites is their shared perception that whites are the dominant, majority race here. And once that is no longer the case, what will unite them, and what will you have to fear from them? What else do blacks, Hispanics, Indians and Asians in America have in common, but that they are not white and that they have to live in a historically white-ruled country?
Yes.
Cite?
Yes, probably when they turn eighteen; it will be their decision to accept my views or not.
Not really, no. If all hardcore white racists migrated to an all-white homeland in the Pacific Northwest (or, better still, somewhere in Central Asia), non-white Americans would still have to live with the social legacies of racism, which would endure even if no racists lived among them any more. I’ve been thinking of starting another thread on that topic: If, by some miracle, America were completely healed and cleansed of racism overnight – what would really change?
I want a peaceful separation not a violent revolution. If you don’t think we can succeed then just ignore us.
But that still begs the question: What exactly are these “genetic attributes” of Asians, and why are they socially important?
[QUOTE=Millen88How boring it would be if in a thousand years everyone in the world spoke the same language, practiced the same religion, ate the same foods and looked alike.[/QUOTE]
It would be a truly wonderful thing, Millen88, and not a boring thing at all, if all humans spoke the same language, at least as a second language, the way most people in India and great many other countries speak English as a second language, regardless of what they speak at home.
Even if we reach a point where the whole globe is a racial melting pot, we will never reach a point where all human beings “look alike.” There will still be perceptible differences between individuals, even if there are no longer perceptible differences between groups – and why should there be perceptible differences between groups. I do not believe a global racial melting pot will produce a world where everybody has the same religion – the American melting pot has not produced that and is not likely to. (It would be a wonderful thing indeed, if there were no religions at all anywhere in the world, but I don’t expect that blessing to come on the human race any time in the next thousand years; we will be a long, long time in growing up that far.) As for foods – I eat cuisine from several different cultures every week. What’s wrong with that?
Can you sketch out a scenario where such a peaceful separation could occur? I can’t see it.
Since this is a debating forum, you don’t get to say: “If you disagree with me, just ignore me”. 