Definition of "temperate zones" (Jeopardy!)

[bibliophage]

On last night’s Jeopardy! (04 December 2001), the Final Jeopardy category was “Climate definitions” (or something like that) and clue was something like

Named for the Latin word for “restraint”, these zones extend 900 miles north and south of the tropics

If it weren’t for the clue about Latin I never would have gotten the right answer. Since when are the temperate zones only 900 miles wide? Is this a new definition of “temperate zone” that I am not aware of, or are the Jeopardy! writers on drugs, or did I mis-read the clue?

Here’s what I was taught: the north temperate zone extends from the tropic of Cancer to the Arctic Circle and the S.T.Z. from the Tropic of Capricorn to the Antarctic Circle. Each temperate zone is thus more than 3,000 miles wide. (Poleward of the temperate zones are the two frigid zones and in the middle is the torrid zone.)

By the Jeopardy definition (as I read it), New York and Washington wouldn’t be in the temperate zone. What zone would they be in if not the temperate?

[Kaitlyn]

I sure hope you’re right, cuz your version is what I’ve been teaching my students in geography for more than a decade.

[Colibri]

Your definition is correct. The Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are at 23[sup]o[/sup] 27’ and the Arctic and Antarctic Circles at 66[sup]o[/sup] 33’, making the Temperate Zones 43[sup]o[/sup] 06’ in width. Since a degree of latitude is approximately 69 miles, this translates to 2,976 miles. Assuming you read the question correctly, the Jeopardy writers clearly made some kind of mistake (though I can’t imagine what it might have been).

[barbitu8]

*Originally posted by Colibri *
**Your definition is correct. The Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are at 23[sup]o[/sup] 27’ and the Arctic and Antarctic Circles at 66[sup]o[/sup] 33’, making the Temperate Zones 43[sup]o[/sup] 06’ in width. Since a degree of latitude is approximately 69 miles, this translates to 2,976 miles. Assuming you read the question correctly, the Jeopardy writers clearly made some kind of mistake (though I can’t imagine what it might have been). **

Colibri, a degree of latitude is much less than 69 miles as you approach the Circles, so the total distance would be far les than 3,000 miles, but greater than 900 miles.

I guess the thinking behind the question is that in popular lingo, the cold climes as you approach the Circles are not considered “temperate.” I don’t think of northern Canada, for example, as a temperate climate. I think it has a frigid climate. But I also think Chicago has a frigid climate.

[MonkeyMensch]

*Originally posted by barbitu8 *

Colibri, a degree of latitude is much less than 69 miles as you approach the Circles, so the total distance would be far les than 3,000 miles, but greater than 900 miles.

**

Just to clarify, degrees of * longitude get smaller as you approach the poles. Degrees of latitude stay preety much the same, with a little difference from the Earth being an oblate shperoid.

But as to the OP, They had to be smoking dope, or just transposed some other unrelated figure in their haste.

[RM_Mentock]

*Originally posted by barbitu8 *
Colibri, a degree of latitude is much less than 69 miles as you approach the Circles, so the total distance would be far les than 3,000 miles, but greater than 900 miles.

Just the opposite, I believe. The length of each degree of latitude gets longer as you approach the poles.

You seem to be thinking of longitude, but the length of the temperate zones are 360 degrees of longitude.

[Colibri]

barbitu8, degrees of latitude are pretty much the same regardless of how far you are from the equator. MonkeyMensch is correct that the variation is minor and due to the Earth being an oblate spheroid rather than a perfect sphere, and RM Mentock is correct that degrees of latitude are slightly longer closer to the poles:

From this site

If the earth were exactly spherical, a degree of latitude would be equal to 1/360 of the circumference of a circle drawn on the surface of the earth and passing through the North and South poles. The earth, however, is flattened at the poles, so that the actual length of a degree, as determined astronomically, varies. At the equator a degree of latitude is 110,568.18 m (362,756.5 ft), or about 110.57 km (about 68.7 miles). The length of a degree at 45° North or South, the so-called middle degree, is 111,131.9 m (364,606 ft), or about 111.25 km (69.13 miles) while at the poles a degree of latitude is estimated to be about 111,700 m or approximately 69.41 miles

The variation is less than three-quarters of a mile. Using the “middle degree” cited above, and a width of 43.1 degrees, the temperature zones are 2,979.5 miles in width, or what I said. (YMMV ;))

The length of a degree of longitude, on the other hand, varies from approximately 69 miles at the Equator to zero at the poles.

[Richard_Pearse]

Just for interest sake, a degree of longitude is equal (with the slight variations as quoted above) to 60 nautical miles, and a minute of latitude is equal to 1 NM. Makes those nautical miles really handy things. Also means if you have a chart without a scale but with degrees of latitude marked then you can measure distances fairly accurately with a piece of string.

[Dragonblink]

After reading the OP, my first thought was, “Well, according to Monty Python, England’s in a temperate zone!”

I can’t believe I get my knowledge of geography and ornithology from “Monty Python and the Holy Grail.”

[RM_Mentock]

*Originally posted by Skogcat *
Just for interest sake, a degree of longitude is equal (with the slight variations as quoted above) to 60 nautical miles

You meant latitude, didn’t you?

Anyway, that is no longer the official definition of nautical mile, and it is only approximate.

[barbitu8]

I should never question a Colibri post.

It depends upon what system of classification one uses. Van Nostrand’s * Scientific Encyclopedia *:

Of the major climatic classifications in use today, those of W. Koppen and C.W. Thorthwaite are referred to most often. Koppen’s elaborate georgraphic system of climates is based upon annual and seasonal temperatureand precipitation values; his clmatic regions are given a letter code designation, and include as major categories, “tropical rain,” “temperate rainy,” “snow forest,” tundra," and “perpetual frost.”…

Temperate climates, very generally, are the variable climates of the midle lattitudes, between the extremes of the tropical and polar climates…Tropical climates [have] a coolest-month mean temperature of 64.4 degrees or higher…Polar climates are characterized by a warmest-month mean temperature of less than 32 degrees F.

[RM_Mentock]

*Originally posted by barbitu8 *
**Temperate climates, very generally, are the variable climates of the midle lattitudes, between the extremes of the tropical and polar climates… **

I’m thinking that that’s what Colibri said, isn’t it? Or are you agreeing now?

There is a UBB board over at http://www.jeopardy.com, but I don’t see any discussion about this. Well, there is now.

[Richard_Pearse]

*Originally posted by RM Mentock *
**

*Originally posted by Skogcat *
Just for interest sake, a degree of longitude is equal (with the slight variations as quoted above) to 60 nautical miles

You meant latitude, didn’t you?

Anyway, that is no longer the official definition of nautical mile, and it is only approximate. **

Ah yes, Latitude of course. And yes it is approximate but it is a very close approximation and I just think it’s far more interesting talking about a degree of latitude being 60 NM rather than 69 statute miles

[Colibri]

*Originally posted by barbitu8 *
**I should never question a Colibri post.
**

Words to live by.

[sub]Although, as much as I hate to admit it, Duck Duck Goose did get the better of me a while back, on the subject of jackrabbits, of all things.[/sub]

[johnson]

Very amusing that Mr. Arrogant, aka Mr. Geography, screwed this one up (well, ok, the writers, but still).

[barbitu8]

*Originally posted by RM Mentock *
**

*Originally posted by barbitu8 *
**Temperate climates, very generally, are the variable climates of the midle lattitudes, between the extremes of the tropical and polar climates… **

I’m thinking that that’s what Colibri said, isn’t it? Or are you agreeing now? **

But you didn’t quote the whole paragraph. The encyclopedia differed from other posts in referring to the temperate zone not being from the Tropic of Cancer/Capricorn to the Arctic/Antarctic Circle, but referring to the coolest warm mean and warmest month mean, which may, indeed, limit it to 900 miles. I’m not going to research that.

[Popup]

*Originally posted by barbitu8 *
**I should never question a Colibri post.

It depends upon what system of classification one uses. Van Nostrand’s * Scientific Encyclopedia *:
…
I’m not going to research that.
**

If you’re not researching it, I’ll have to do it.
I still think that this ‘new’ definition will give temperate zones greater than 900miles wide.

Tropical climates [have] a coolest-month mean temperature of 64.4 degrees or higher…Polar climates are characterized by a warmest-month mean temperature of less than 32 degrees F.

According to weather.com the average temperature of the coolest month i Cairo, Egypt is 57°F, which means that it is (by some margin) outside of the tropical zone.
On the other end we have Tromsö, Norway, where the average July temperature is 53°F. Yet again by a great margin inside the temperate zone. (That was the northernmost reference I found. It wouldn’t surprise me if even Spitsbergen (at N78) have summer months with average temperature above freezing.)

Tromsö is at N70, and Cairo at N32, so the temperate zone extends (at least in Europe) at least 38° (=2622 statute miles).

I think we can safely say that Jeapordy were wrong, indepentant of the definition chosen.

[RM_Mentock]

*Originally posted by barbitu8 *
But you didn’t quote the whole paragraph. The encyclopedia differed from other posts in referring to the temperate zone not being from the Tropic of Cancer/Capricorn to the Arctic/Antarctic Circle, but referring to the coolest warm mean and warmest month mean, which may, indeed, limit it to 900 miles. I’m not going to research that. **

Actually, it seems that the quoted paragraphs didn’t refer to the zones at all. My Ame. Her. Dic. has one of the definitions of zone as “2.a. Any of the five regions of the surface of the earth that are loosely divided according to prevailing climate and latitude, including the Torrid Zone, the North and South Temperate zones, and the North and South Frigid zones. b. A similar division on any other planet. c. Mathematics. A portion of a sphere bounded by the intersections of two parallel planes with the sphere.” (Why Torrid Zone gets a capital Z, I dunno. Temperate Zone is capitalized at that dictionary entry, as well as North Temperate Zone.)