I’ve just read Mary K. Baxter’s A Divine Revelation of Hell. She claims that Jesus took her soul into Hell. I believe that she was sincere in her account, but I’m skeptical of her report of the afterlife. I’d like to explore an alternate hypothesis.
If the author’s visions were recurring dreams or psychotic delusions, what evidence would point to that conclusion?
Then you must also believe she’s completely delusional.
How about this one:
She wanted to make money selling books to gullible Christians.
How about the fact that there is absolutely no empirical evidence to support her claims?
Maybe I should have put this post in GQ. I don’t want to debate about Ms. Baxter’s motives or the nature of Hell. I want to know what clues a mental health professional would look for to determine whether a particular person’s account of something actually occured.
I’ll start first:
I am not a psychologist, but I would guess that a delusional fantasy would be consistent with that person’s world view. For example: If a member of the KKK were to have a vision of heaven, he’d be unlikely to see any positive black people there.
The book’s description of Hell includes fire, worms and bones. Fire is part of the traditional Christian concept of Hell. In the American culture, worms and bones are “icky”. Perhaps the fact that there is nothing surprising or unexpected in her description is a big red flag?
Why would a spiritual realm have bones? Decoration? If we do have a spirit I highly doubt tormenting it would resemble earthly suffering so much.
Fire? Physical pain. Phaw
Icky stuff? Worms could hardly crawl on a spirit.
If you’ve read Alien Abductions Creating a Modern Phenomenon he goes through several experiences and tries to understand the psychology behind it (though he tends to write everything off as a sexual assault too often) Even though it was about aliens being plunged into a hell seems to me to be a compatible delusion.
Oh I should have added he did find the culture of the people involved did impact the experience. A Christian lady felt the aliens were giving her messages from god and had angelic type behaviors. While a lesbian couple had a much rougher time feeling assaulted by the ‘probes’. Etc.
Oh I should have added he did find the beliefs of the people involved did impact the experience. A Christian lady felt the aliens were giving her messages from god and had angelic type behaviors. While a lesbian couple had a much rougher time feeling assaulted by the ‘probes’. Etc.
The question is really mis-phrased. You should be asking what evidence would point to a conclusion that she is not either lying or delusional. Those are the default natural presumptions. There is no reason to even consider a supernatural possibility unless the natural explanations can be eliminated (which they can’t).
Darkhold said, “Worms could hardly crawl on a spirit.”
Spirit worms could.
Baxter’s DIVINE REVELATION books I hold to be delusional & not revelational based on one factor- no matter how she claims (sincerely) to be a Bible-believing Christian, her revelations go far beyond the Biblical data. There’s a WHOLE lot of psychosexual analysis one could do of her view that Hell is shaped like a woman’s body with the lowest pit in her… well, lowest pit L
I read it.
Found it not credible.
I mean, who’se going to disprove her (besides Lekatt?)
Hey, I was there, its nothign like she says it is!
I didn’t read the Divine Revelation of Heaven.
Same reason.
I don’t want to be a burning skeleton with worms in it! Although I think her account was outlandish, but I’d sleep a little better at night if I could dismiss her experience as a delusional fantasy.
I take some comfort in the fact that she didn’t mention any moral atheists in Hell. Maybe that means they make it Heaven? Or is it another red flag in that she has no concept of a “moral atheist”?
There was a documentary about ghosts on the history channel some years ago. One incident I can’t forget is the story of a ghost haunting a house in New England walking 2 feet above the floor. The owners of the house checked the records and found the house had been rebuilt on the same foundation but the floors were in different locations that the original.
Do neurotic ghosts create realities in their own minds? Hell is what the individual makes for himself.
Dal Timgar
Really? Boy, I was just going to write this off as another Christian get-rich-quick scheme (living in Wheaton, Illinois, home of Billy Graham’s alma mater, leaves one putting his hand on his wallet whenever he sees a cross) until you said that. At last, a modern, post-Freud writer who is not too selfconcious! My wife will love it (see the Was Freud a Quack? thread)
juan2003: So, if Baxter’s book is delusional or a lie (though how anyone could think that is a mystery to me), you think that there’s some room here for hell to be pleasant???
kelly5078,
No he clearly stated
he’s asking for alternate hypothesis. We’re giving him such. He’s said nothing about hell being pleasant.
and Kalhoun thanks you really cracked me up. But if I remember correctly nothing below humans were granted souls so did god make spirit worms to crawl over spirits in hell? And what’s up with the spirit bones? I know god works in mysterious ways but sheesh…:smack:
Darkhold: I was reponding to this later post by juan2003
Why would one sleep better? Are there not enough bloodcurdling descriptions of hell extant to keep Christians permanently awake? Anyway, it was a joke.
kelly5078,
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you here. Are you saying that Baxter’s book represents truth?
You’re joking, right?
Is there any evidence you could show me to support such a claim?
RoundGuy: Heavens, I’ve got to learn to start using smilies.
As to what I really think: It’s caca. I wish I could tell if she’s delusional or a liar. Previouly, I would have gone for liar every time, but I’ve just got done reading Michael Shermer’s Why People Believe Weird Things, and apparently people’s proclivities toward self-delusion go a lot deeper than I ever could have imagined (I’m talking sane people here. And I’m with you and Diogenes that anyone who takes this stuff seriously has the burden of proof on them.
I tend to use smilies very, very, rarely. But it certainly would have helped me understand you in this case.
I believe I’ll stick with liar, rather than delusional. It’s all about the money.
That is for certain. But, I’m still waiting for someone to attempt to provide that proof.