IMO post Obama the democrats have adopted messaging like this that is so uncontroversial it means nothing and being willing to take on controversial slogans is a step in the right direction.
There moght be a better messaging approach than “abolish ICE” but I’m not sure what it would be if the goal is to get across that immigration enforcement shouldn’t do this whole grab-bag of abuses that ICE is responsible for.
Harris had a huge problem imo that her campaign website had paragraphs of details most people don’t read, her campaign ads and mass media were these really vague slogans and there wasn’t enough in between.
The problem with it is that it’s 1) not likely to be achievable for long and 2) if it were achievable, deflation is a very bad thing. So it may appeal to ignorant masses, but it will bite you one way or another eventually.
Of course it’s debatable. The question is whether it’s a good slogan, and you’re in the position of having to explain why it’s a bad idea, which makes it a good slogan.
Nah. To some degree even now. Big numbers yes, still deporting benign contributors to our communities, but being done in a less showy confrontational way. Dial down a notch declaring victory, that the approach has scared would be immigrants away and resulted in a success of huge self deportations … that could easily happen in a next election run up, especially if the issue was threatening the possibility of electing someone who will protect his interests for the next four years, should he live that long.
Yes. And of course Republicans are good at messaging that says that IS the choice. You or them!
I still say go positive. “Sane Immigration” or “Smart Immigration” instead of “Abolish ICE.” It’s simply too easy for Republicans to turn “Abolish ICE” into “Dems want open borders.”
ICE has also been arresting, and occasionally shooting, people who immigrated legally, and citizens.
If non-citizens don’t get due process, then there’s no way to tell if citizens are also among those swept up. That’s part of what due process is for. No one is safe from an agency, or a government, that won’t use it.
Getting that into a two or three word slogan is another matter. That is, “due process” is only two words, but explaining why it matters to someone who doesn’t understand they’re in danger is another matter.
Exactly. It’s got some nuance to it; they’re just sweeping up a bunch of Hispanic people just because they’re Hispanic, and could be illegal immigrants.
Which is not what they’re being shown on the news though; what they’re being shown on the news is people waving Mexican flags while protesting at City Hall, and talking about how bad it is that they’re hauling in people who are hard working, etc… and illegally here. It’s a failure of optics; I think if a lot of Americans actually understood how this works, they’d be a lot more upset. But the news stories always seem to be the ones about how someone is here illegally, but then deported after being pulled over for a traffic stop or something like that, as if being hard working and nonviolent makes it ok to be here illegally.
That’s a terrible look when Democrats hitch their wagons to that sort of thing. They need to be decrying the situations where actual citizens are being held without due process and being deported and stuff like that. THAT is what’s going to get the people in the boonies upset, not them bending the rules a bit to deport an actual illegal alien.
Like this article- nobody’s going to get het up over this guy being deported, but when you side with the anti-ICE types, that’s effectively what you’re saying you support, unless you’re very judicious about it.
Very easy. I am against crime- but I am also in favor of Miranda rights, and the cops no longer being allowed to beat confessions out of suspects. ICE has become a tool of MAGA bigotry and oppression. Mistreating people rounding them up like animals, putting them in concentration camps, and too often grabbing legal residents and even citizens up due to their skin color.
Just like I am in favor of the Office of the Presidency, but not what trump is doing to it.
Right
No, this is America, not some Dictatorship. No “bending the rules”. Undocumented aliens are not criminals, they are just here without proper documentation. Which means you treat them like humans, with civil rights, and if they are here improperly, you deport them back to their home nation- IF that can be done safely. But if they would be in danger by going back, you give them asylum.
I’ve actually seen a great deal of that. Depends on the news sources you use, of course. How to get anti-ICE news onto pro-ICE news sites is a problem.
The people who were depending on him to do his job will.
There’s more than one issue here, and the major difficulties with getting legal working papers for people who want work, whose work is needed, and who are overall doing considerable good and no harm by being here is also a legitimate issue which doesn’t fit well into slogans.
You’re still missing my point. It’s exactly that rule bending which results in citizens and legal immigrants being endangered. It is flat out not possible to deny due process to anyone without denying it to everyone; because without due process you don’t know who you’re denying it to.
At no point am I advocating or condoning the denial of due process.
What I AM saying is that there are a lot of people who aren’t particularly concerned if that happens to people who are here illegally. Making noise about that is falling on deaf ears. Like in the example of the Honduran guy in Houston. Here illegally, nabbed by HPD, then handed over to ICE. Nobody on that side of the aisle gives one shit about that guy or the circumstances of his detention and deportation. In their eyes, he paid his money and took his chances.
But stuff like this is far more likely to piss off the people out in the sticks. In my experience, they do draw a line between illegal and legal immigrants, and especially between citizens and non-citizens. This is where the emphasis ought to be; I realize the news media just concentrates on the lurid and flashy, but the Democratic party politicians should focus here, and not so much on people from elsewhere. The nuance of due process for illegal immigrants is pretty much lost on anyone who’s not already pissed off, but the lack of nuance with ICE detaining, beating, etc… American citizens probably isn’t lost on many of them.
“Sane immigration” is easy to twist into “See, Democrats are in favor of immigration!”, which in turn is easy to twist into “See, Democrats want illegal immigration!”.
“Abolish ICE”, however, is much harder to twist, because ICE has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration.
is what most Americans support: controlled legal immigration.
Americans broadly continue to think immigration is a good thing for the U.S. (73%), though that share has slipped from a record high of 79%last year. Still, it remains above the 25-year trend average of 67%.
Gallup’s June 1-15 telephone poll finds that 21% of U.S. adults believe immigration is a bad thing for the country.
Independents at 73% but even among Republicans, even in face of the strong anti-immigration rhetoric of MAGA, in favor of gets 50%.
ICE literally is immigration control and enforcement. Few are in favor of literally abolishing that.
Literal meanings are often not actual meanings. ICE has a connection to immigration in the same way that North Korea is a democratic people’s republic.
ice is poison they need to go. They do not follow the Constitution or any law. We would not accept that from other people why accept it from them? Abolish them, investigate all the crimes they have and contiune to commit. Jail the guilty (there are probably a lot of those) and farm out their duties to other agencies.
Immigration needs to be reformed; it has needed it for decades. I don’t see the changes that need to be made happening soon, but ice needs to go.
