Democrats have no winning strategy against the tactics of the right

Politics & Elections
1

Bernie Sanders’ admonishment of Democrats’ appeal to blue collar workers has been making the rounds, including here on the SDMB. I vehemently disagree with the senator.

Let’s start with the obvious – between the two parties, Democrats support strong unions, employee rights, and consumer protections. Specific to blue collar workers, Republicans offer nothing. Rather, they argue that all of those things are unnecessary.

Why then, does the Republican message resonate with blue collar workers? Because they’ve been lied to, and they believe those lies. They believe that unions are bad for them, because that’s what they’ve been told.

How can Democrats combat that? Convincing voters of the truth is a losing strategy.

Let’s set those specific policies aside, though, as the #1 issue facing blue collar workers is climate change. It’s the same #1 issue facing all global citizens. The Democrats offer the most milquetoast of policies in an effort not to offend anyone. In contrast, Republicans offer that we don’t need to do anything at all. Taxes can remain low and none of us need to be inconvenienced. This was no small task, as it required convincing voters that, ultimately, all of science is bad. And the voters believe them.

At this point, no amount of compassionate explanation of our actual issues and the actual solutions we need is possible. Lying is a winning strategy. Holding on to the truth is a losing strategy. And frankly, I don’t know how you out-lie Republicans.

There is nothing that can be done. Harris was a phenomenal candidate who ran a phenomenal campaign. She was doomed from the start because she was forced by her party, her ethics, and her integrity to play be the rules of reality. All we can do now is accept that the morons are in charge and we just need to look out for ourselves.

2

Democrats are seen as the party of the Establishment and the Elites. In terms of building a nationwide coalition, that’s not a great place to be.

Trump and his party lie about everything all the time. They are prolific and pernicious liars, and they welcome the support of the 4-chan community, not only as voters but also as speech-writers. But they OWN an alternative information/media ecosystem that feeds millions with their bullshit. The left doesn’t have a similar thing, and the so-called mainstream media is not on the side of the Dems, in spite of what many think.

But saying the above doesn’t make Democrats more electable. Dems need to be able to break through the wall that separates us from blue-collar America and rural America. Somewhere along the way, the Dems stopped talking to average people and became estranged from middle America. We are mostly correct on the issues, and our policies actually help people. But they aren’t listening to us. I think the Dem problem is mostly in messaging, communicating, and getting access to millions who are walled off from us. To fix this might require us to have more people who aren’t as polished and smooth as Obama, who might be willling to go on a Joe Rogan podcast, and who are willing to spend alot of time in red areas.

Fly-over country is still part of America. We don’t need to “fly over” it. We need to build blue communities in all these states that are currently walled off from the Dems, and not just in large cities, but small communities.

When I was growing up in Georgia, the Democrats were the party of rural and working-class people. We’re now the “party of Atlanta”. Something has to change in our messaging and how we organize to give us more access to the rest of the country that currently hates us.

3

I believe you are correct, but I’m concerned your points will fall on deaf ears, and people will refuse to accept that its the Democrats that have failed; and will try to deflect by insisting that the people who didn’t vote their way are idiots, racists, and fascists.

Instead of doing things and talking about things that resonated with a larger number of voters, the Democrats trotted out Beyoncé and Bruce Springsteen.

It is a long term failure in strategy.

4

Respectfully, you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. I don’t know how going on podcasts and being fun to have a beer with will convince people to make any kind of sacrifice to combat climate change when someone is right there telling them that they don’t need to make any sacrifices because climate change isn’t real.

It’s a fool’s errand. And it’s not Democrats’ fault or responsibility.

5

I think it’s important to differentiate between strategy with tactics. Strategy is your over-arching plan for victory. Tactics are your specific techniques and approaches to accomplishing that strategy.

Trump’s strategy was “win over working-class voters, particularly in the rust belt”. The tactics were, largely: lie to them about climate change, scare them about immigrants, and convince them that you were on their side and the opposition was not.

So the Democrats need both a strategy and tactics.

I believe their strategy was: continue the swing of educated suburban whites and try to limit the losses among rural voters and non-white voters. Basically repeat the 2020 election. The tactics seemed to be: present as optimistic vs scary, energize women around Dobbs, convince voters that the economy wasn’t so bad, and rely on a ground game GOTV effort.

So there are (at least) two big questions:

  1. Is that a good strategy? Is a coalition of educated white urban and suburban voters and a reduced, but still large, share of non-white voters enough to win a national election. I’m not convinced it is - I think you have to either reduce the rural margins a bit or keep extremely large margins of non-white voters.
  2. Were those good tactics? For this election there might not have been a choice. She just didn’t have a lot of time to figure this stuff out and make a better plan. Maybe having one or two big economic agenda items might have helped, but again they probably didn’t have enough time to roll them out. And being a VP of the sitting President is really hard since you can’t actually take action but you get all the blame.

Finally, we should at least acknowledge that for all of the doom and gloom this was the first election since 2004 that the Democratic candidate didn’t win the popular vote. The margins in the states that decided the election were relatively small - not as small as 2016 or 2020, but not insurmountable. Compared to the drubbings that many incumbent parties have taken over the last two years it could probably have been worse.

6

Right now, Democratic politicians are largely drawn from the ranks of attorneys, business leaders, and the military. What if there’s a deliberate policy to set up a pipeline from union leadership to Democratic leadership?

I also think that there’s a dearth of genuine sit-downs with folks to determine the direction of the party. Community organizers (looking at you Obama) are experts in this. Pull community organizers into positions of leadership.

Then draw that contrast. Who do you trust to address the needs of the working class: billionaires, or members of the working class?

7

You don’t go on Joe Rogan to convince people with logic. You do it be one of the boys and win people over with personality. It’s obviously tougher if you don’t actually think the moon landing is fake or whatever - maybe the tactic is to let Rogan types start talking about this stuff and laugh in their face

8

Trump supports unions. Trump will threaten the CEO of your company if he thinks of sending your job abroad. Trump will lock down the border to protect your job. Trump will throw people out of the country to protect your job. Just in general, Trump is more hardcore about protecting you.

Worker protection is what the left is selling. Trump has spent his whole life scamming people in this class, trying to sell them water, business manuals, sales manuals, etc. His natural tastes and predilections more closely align with the average Joe, who dreams the life of bling. Trump is the bling lord.

Fundamentally, Trump is a lefty minus the PC bullshit, and he comes across as more sincere about it.

Given things like pardoning Bannon for scamming this group, and all of Trump’s other corrupt initiatives, I think we can be pretty confident in saying that’s all just acting. But he’s good enough that they’re buying it and they’re not the types to go looking for evidence of true sincerity.

This is the general class that supported the French revolution, the KKK, Communism, and Fascism. They’re honest about what they want and how they feel about it, but they have a poor track of selecting good and honest causes. In general, their preferred leaders have always either ended to murdering most of them, engaged in self-enrichment, or simply wasted the resources of their nation and forced a big political reset.

The real answer to their problems is normal, reasonable, and caring folk. But they like manly men and people who will do unethical things, purely to their advantage.

I, for one, would never support a union. It’s just too close to their hearts, as much as they do deserve advocates for their needs.

FTR: Never Trump Republican talking. We now have two Democratic parties, to my eyes.

9

I agree. Even more so, I think there also needs to be an effort to recruit staff, especially in communications, who aren’t bright young progressives fresh out of elite colleges. I get that it’s the sort of job that requires a college degree, but if the Democrats made a concerted push to hire from non-flagship state universities, especially folks who started at a community college and / or were non-traditional students who took some time off along the way, it would go a long way toward learning how to communicate with regular people and address their concerns.

10

The thread title may be true, but I doubt it matters. We are in a period where incumbent parties are out of favor. How long did it take Keir Starmer to go from landslide victory to being less popular than the PM he replaced? I have not done the math, but I think it was about 100 days. And what was the brilliant Tory strategy during those days? Nothing — they were busy with their internal leadership struggle.

Swing voters hate inflation and think it is up to the President to stop it. In the defense of these voters, even Harris told them that the President does have considerable control over inflation. Trump seems to love tariffs and to be in denial over the inflationary impact. And he can play with tariffs much more quickly then he can get give out goodies like tax cuts. Maybe I am wrong and his aides will again succeed in ignoring some of his worst commands. But he’s bound to do something unpopular enough, next year, to create voter buyer remorse, even if Democratic strategy is bad.

11

Are you suggesting, then, that Democrats take the approach of being a sigma to the right’s alpha? (To use the parlance of Gen Z).

That is, loudly state that we will deport more filthy immigrants. We will be tougher on China and end free trade. Our tariffs will be bigger and better than Trump’s.

And then, once in power, just not do any of those things because low information voters don’t actually care about follow up?

Honestly, it may be what’s needed, but I don’t know if I could stomach it. And anyone who tried such a tactic would lose my vote and would therefore rely on the rubes.

12

I concur

13

I can’t help but think a great number of American voters are fools. Anyone who looks at Trump and says, “Yeah, that’s a reasonable choice,” is either evil or a fool. That said, you’re right, “I’m not Trump” isn’t a sufficient selling point. I felt the same way in 2004 when Democrats ran on the “I’m not Bush” platform. The sad truth is the Republicans thoroughly thrashed the Democrats in 2024 and we are all going to pay the price.

Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic, but I’m not seeing a path to victory here. We are all in for a world of hurt, and when that hurt comes maybe those who voted Republican will have a change of heart.

14

Who said anything about “reasoning” with people? That’s the last thing on my mind right now. Most people in the US don’t vote on a coherent view of the issues. They don’t read economic papers that compare our performance post-pandemic to the rest of the world. They don’t consume information about the performance of the ACA in lowering the ranks of the uninsured by 25 million or so.

People go with some “gut” feel. They hear Trump talk, and think, “this guy says it the way I’d say it”. Doesn’t matter what he says. It’s how he relates to them.

Dems need a few more of those type guys, without all the lies. So yes, let’s talk to Joe Rogan. Let’s be someone that working class people could see themselves having a few beers. And I may be wrong. But what we’re currently doing is not working.

15

They need to find an American Zelenskiy. Someone who can point out all the corruption, stupidity and weirdness of the Trump administration, while making people laugh about it. Then put that person on a regular rotation of speaking engagements and TV appearances, so that in four years, they’re the obvious face of the New Democratic Party*.

*Pay the Canadian NDP a royalty to be allowed to use this name.

16

In response to the OP: There’s no need for the Ds to lie. They just need to tell the truth about things voters care about.

Inflation? Then talk endlessly about inflation and how the Ds will do everything in their limited power to bring it down. Low wages? Then talk endlessly about how you plan to bring them up. But in this past election, the Ds barely even addressed the topic.

17

Though Democrats have a disadvantage in that, because their voters will demand details and nitpick them, while Republican voters will accept any promise without any detail whatsoever.

18

I concur with those who think that Trump is a leftist without all the PC baggage. After all, what Democrat does not have a hidden fear of Jewish space lasers, subsidizing litter boxes for furries, or the globalist conspiracy to drain children’s blood in nonexistent basements?

Remember just a few days ago when Biden called the governor of Georgia to ask him to “find” some more votes to flip the state? They’re totally the same.

19

I can give a list of things to do and target but that won’t have much selling power minus some reasoning behind it, so apologies for not just saying, “Do this.”

The way that I would look at things is like, there’s two ways to be the opposite.

Like, someone overeats. We want to solve that problem. So one solution is to purge. You eat a lot and then you put your finger down your throat, or you flush everything out of your system quickly with laxatives and enemas. You’ve erased the badness by doing the equal but opposite badness.

The other solution is that you just eat normal. That’s the other way of doing the opposite.

To the view of the normal person, the big issue is that we’ve basically got the two big groups of crazies - the close minded, regressive folk versus the attention seeking, experientialists - fighting each other out for ultimate domination and neither group feels like a great pick to back. Neither one seems capable of connecting to real problems or real solutions.

Like say that we want a better health care system. We can’t have that unless the majority of the government comes together to decide on some general, mutually acceptable framework. But, as it is, anything that either side would purpose would be hounded out as “evil” by the other side, revoked or kneecapped, and destroyed as soon as the other group comes into power.

You can’t accomplish any new law of significance. You can’t support good causes without the other side supporting bad causes, just to spite you. There’s literally no point in advocating for any cause - be it health care, women’s rights, worker’s rights, or anything else - since nothing can ever be accomplished without it being the work of evil.

So where is an anti-gerrymandering Constitutional amendment? Where is the amendment to restore the supermajority rules for Senate approvals? Where are the laws to make judges and prosecutors non-partisan, non-elected people? Where are the laws to add sortition to voting?

If you tell me that the problem is corruption and partisanship, but your solution is to shut down legislation that would limit stock holding by Congress, advise court packing, you refuse to suspend the pardon power to a President being investigated for corruption, and you can’t come up with better systems, then you’re not the answer.

If your only answer is that the evil boogyman on the other side will get me, if I don’t vote for you, then you still have some growing up to do.

20

The GOP lies. And it works. The truth doesn’t resonate with people, unfortunately. They like the lies.