Rather than infiltrate, anti-magas might think about marginalizing and isolating them on issues, especially at local and state levels. This exercise outlines the strategy and helps with tactics. Spectrum of Allies | Training For Change
Trying to infiltrate a cult is a good way to get absorbed by the cult. The Right has gained lots of adherents from people who decided to associate with them for one reason for another who thought they were immune to propaganda. They weren’t.
We won’t win votes from them under any circumstances short of becoming them, and then there’s no point because they’ve won.
The refusal to acknowledge that the Right is composed of evil, ignorant and irrational people is the problem, not being “mean” to them. The Democrats have tried pandering to them for decades and it’s led to disaster after disaster. It never gains any votes from the Right, and loses votes from everyone else.
Who do you suppose is stupid enough to take this seriously, so much so that they’re issuing death threats? I’ll bet anything it’s not Democrats.
Why not? And what makes you think it’s not meant seriously? “Masturbation is evil” is the kind of old school puritanism the Republicans like.
On the other hand, the Republicans have shown us that it is much easier to stab people once they put down their weapons and attempt to meet you halfway.
@Fretful_Porpentine has some first hand experience with infiltration, albeit in the now distant past. I would be interested in her views of the OP.
Generally speaking, I’m a try everything guy. Infiltration can work with far-right fringe operations. Talia Lavin successfully catfished a number a racist groups. Unicorn Riot also does some good work with documenting far right activities, leaking Discord messages of racist groups, etc.
I’m not so sure how infiltration would work with something as inchoate as MAGA. There are no silver bullets but hitting opponents of democracy from many angles is all to the good.
Even though Mr. Trump and his supporters disparage Democrats, that isn’t a problem because they weren’t trying to infiltrate the Democratic party or win Democratic party voters. And they didn’t.
~Max
Agree with Max that disparaging your target is not a quality infiltration strategy. Talia Lavin went by the handle AryanQueen when she catfished racists.
I’m glad we got that sorted out.
Yeah, telling Black Americans to "Get off the Democrat plantation!’ was never intended to change voting patterns.
It’s classic dictionary-definition abuser rhetoric. “It’s your fault I’m hitting you. If you weren’t like that, I wouldn’t have to hit you. Stop doing that and I’ll stop hitting you. It’s your own fault.” No coincidence that Trump has become its standard-bearer.
Depressing to see this poison being injected with a straight face in a discussion here, but these are depressing times.
Is that what the NYT article is about – infiltration?
I can only read the first few lines because it is paywalled for me, but it seems the standard thing of it being Democrats’ fault for people voting for Trump. We shouldn’t have called some of them “semi-fascist” that one time, now they have no choice but to vote for a fascist, who regularly calls his opponents actual fascists and far worse.
Dems shouldn’t have held such extreme views over gender and immigration (that we’re not going to cite, because we’re either making it up or it’s just something a member of the public said once in a tweet).
Nobody at Trump rallies makes signs. Maybe a few outside. But they are not even able to express what they want other than the alpha male.
“It’s all sanitized to give a safe family type of protest for them. No thought involved, even the signs they held ups were printed by Trump. Jordan Klepper was able to get something more out of the Trump supporters on the grounds of the events, but the issues still tended to fall in the conspiracy theories and the stolen election.” From my blog:
That’s not banning masturbation.
That’s banning male masturbation, all forms of male and female contraception, male sex with a post-menopausal female, or male sex with a female known to be sterile for whatever reason. And of course any/all forms of male sex with another male.
It also outlaws menstruation which discharges genetic material biologically intended for embryo production.
Perhaps it’s a Bridge to Far to pretend to be a MAGA. I couldn’t do it.
I do? That’s news to me, are you sure you haven’t mixed me up with someone else?
(I do, however, live in Mississippi and know a bit about the state legislature, and I can confirm that the guy who introduced the masturbation ban bill is a Democrat who was always acting with satirical intent.)
The key word there is “intent”. Women do not intentionally menstruate (except in certain circumstances).
And there is a flaw in the wording: “… to fertilize an embryo …” – an embryo is an ovum that has already been fertilized.
I am very afraid you are correct: We (including a lot of other formerly democratic governments) are sliding ahead of the avalanche, and our best hope is to be able to dig ourselves out when it finally congeals and stops.
This is what I’d like to hear from the Doper historians (and maybe this should be a new thread?):
How do societies recover from these bouts of horrible, self-imposed, collective madness? Hilter was brought down by external forces – do we have to count on China <shudder!> to save us? There have been other instances when everything got very, very bad: The French Revolution, The Inquisition, various religious purgings and witch-burnings. Is there a signal that says whoa!, we’ve gone crazy and that’s enough? Or is it going to be something as simple as the next pandemic? I guess I’m just looking for some sign that we’ve hit bottom and can start building our way back up.
Freudian slip?
On Blackmon’s side, not eschereal’s, if that’s necessary to say.
Iran is probably the best current parallel. They embraced madness 45 years ago. If their current regime falls and is replaced without some external invasion, it’ll be done by the people who are now children. When they’re in their 30s.
So about 70 years’ run. Which is not much different from the lifetime of the Soviet Union. Which is also a good parallel for internal regime change, albeit not current.
We’re still in the fat lady warming up phase, but she’ll be onstage for real before 2025 is over.
So I’m thinking some time around 2095 the US public will be ready for their own anti-authoritarian revolution.
IMO …
About the only offramp before the waterfall is for trump to die after just enough federal destruction that many current MAGAts are feeling the pain personally. They sure won’t hear about in their media, but ehen their disability checks stop amd their autistic
kid’s spec education shuts down and the police bust their heads, well, then they’ll get the message.
But they can only force a quick reversal if it happens real soon before the kleptocracy has embedded itself everywhere.
There was a major current of political unrest in Iran about 25 years ago, as young people who had no memory of Reza’s regime were protesting the current one. Few Iranians even remember Ruhollah, and when Ali bites it, what will follow is a hard guess, but I suspect Iran is ripe for major upheaval.