As I asked Velocity = Exactly what do you think the Dems could have done- mind you without a House majority?
My Contractor buddy says that generally there is a core of a few professionals, then a number of nephews, brothers-in-law and the like hired as “helpers”- and the rest are immigrants. Most Americans just are not interested in learning a trade that involves hard work- Office Space notwithstanding.
Build the border wall that was already voted for instead of trying to sell it for scrap.
The trump 'border wall" was a joke. However-
When asked about the news on Oct. 5 that new border wall construction would indeed commence under his administration, Biden told reporters: “The border wall — the money was appropriated for the border wall. I tried to get to them to reappropriate it, to redirect that money. They didn’t. They wouldn’t. And in the meantime, there’s nothing under the law other than they have to use the money for what it was appropriated. I can’t stop that.”… The Department of Homeland Security said later in 2021 that it would continue some work to “construct and/or remediate approximately 13.4 miles of compromised levee” in the Rio Grande Valley under that “physical dangers” exception…As for Biden’s action on border wall spending, he said he still doesn’t think a wall is effective. Asked whether he thought a border wall “works,” Biden responded: “No.”
Mittelstadt told us the Migration Policy Institute believes that “in very limited cases,” such as “high-density urban areas,” barriers “can serve a purpose as part of a broader strategy.”
“But as a tool deployed across the entire border, we do not see border walls as the solution to deter irregular crossings,” she said. “There are endless reports of smugglers cutting through the metal bollards with a handsaw that can be purchased at any local hardware store. Fencing requires frequent repair and round-the-clock monitoring and as a result is not an effective strategy on its own. It pushes more people into the hands of smugglers, it increases the numbers of injuries and deaths, it sparks very real environmental and wildlife protection issues given the sensitive nature of the border terrain, and it soaks up resources that could be more effectively spent elsewhere.”
See:
IIRC, the funds to actually build the wall ran out before all the materials were used.
Odd that Biden waited until it blew up in his face in late 2023. Democrats crossed over to vote for Trump because it was an issue for both parties. When you have the Mayor of the largest city complaining about it the writing was on the (unfinished) wall.
It’s not just the wall. Trump got the President of Mexico to agree to keep them in Mexico until their court hearing came up. It was called the Remain in Mexico policy which was ended by Biden when he took office.
And to address the thread title, I’ve had multiple die-hard Democrats who HATE Trump tell me they support the wall and policies that come with it.
So where did Biden get the money to start up again?
John Fetterman of PA seems to be cozying up to Trump just fine, and recently visited Mar-a-lago. 
Long before Americans get that hungry, the Republicans will have found an excuse to let a bunch of immigrants re-enter the US to do these jobs.
When our grandparents were doing these jobs, most of them had grown up on farms, and had been doing this sort of work for years. That’s no longer true. Very few Americans would be willing to forgo even what we now consider “bad” or “hard” jobs to go work on a farm.
I reiterate: when we get hungry enough. We’re not there yet. I hope we never get there. But it’s not like immigrants have some special quality that the rest of us don’t. They just have families to support and limited options.
I don’t know. Maybe it’s just me. I’d spend my days in the fields if I had to. At my age, I don’t know how long or how well I could, but certainly I’d rather do that than starve. I also listened to the people who did do it, and who remember that life. I just don’t feel like it’s that far from me the way perhaps other people might.
And my point is, you’ll never get there. Not unless there’s a collapse so large that the US goes down hard, really hard, and the rest of the world follows it, such that international migration essentially ceases.
So long as the US stays at (or at least close to) the top of the world economic heap, there will be people willing and able to migrate there, and do these jobs. The only question is if the US will let them migrate, legally or otherwise. And long, long before it gets to the point that Americans will have to choose between farm work and starvation, they’ll have either come to their senses, and allowed proper, legal migrants to enter the country, or they’ll have found some excuse to overcome their racist impulses to keep the migrants out, and let enough in to do the jobs, even if they keep up the “Dirty Mexican” type propaganda about those very same people.
You are more optimistic than I. I am looking at Los Angeles right now and climate change in general. Trump. Any number of other things. I think it’s likely that we’ll never get there, but I also think it’s not impossible. Big, powerful countries have gone down hard, really hard.
I’m not at all sanguine about the next four years. I don’t think such disaster is likely, but I also don’t think it’s impossible.
We wont. It will just mean higher food prices, thus inflation. America exports food. And the bulk of what we eat- corn and wheat is not dependent on hand labor. But strawberries with double or triple in price, along with lettuce and quite a few other hand picked foods.
We should - sadly- welcome thiese price increases. Americans hate inflation. Now, blaming the 2021 inflation on Biden was bogus- it was caused by the end of covid shutdowns and supply chain issues. But the Dems certainly will be able to blame 2025 inflation on trump. Getting rid of migrant farm workers and tariffs will both cause inflation
I was doing a project on Migrant farm workers for the treasury. So, I tried it for a couple of hours- and i was kinda fit, and much younger than now. After an hour i was pooped out, and had done about a tenth of what the “pros” did. And my back was killing me- I had to go to my chiropractor.
Mind you, I did work on the Family Farm in Sask as a young boy. Getting eggs, bringing the animals back in for the night, slopping hogs, shoveling shit- hard work. But bending over and picking strawberries is mindnumbing hard work. Farm work is not the same as picking strawberries or whatever. You don’t do one task over and over and over, bent over, etc.
Today, of course I couldnt do even an hour.
True, the USA will not get hungry. But how much to you wanna pay for fresh produce?
If things collapse so badly that you’re actually contemplating moving to a farm to survive, my expectation is, shit will be so bad, you’ll likely die long before you reach that farm. At least, that will be true for probably 80+% of the population. Gas will be scarce, so you’ll walk or ride a bike. Bandits will be out in force, so even if you have a bike, you might get killed for it. Lots of people will starve as the moving masses of people abandoning the cities eat everything that can be eaten along the way. And when you get to that farm, if you last that long, you’ll be greeted by farmers who can pick and choose who gets to work for them (as slaves, most likely), so you’re still not safe.
Trump could deport no one at all and he is not going to be hurt by it. He knows his voters are stupid and don’t check his work. Any more than they cared whether he actually built a wall or not.
Obama deported more people than Trump. But none of his voters believe that.
The disaster scenario that seems more plausible is that the bottom falls out of my industry, and I’m forced to job-seek in a terrible economy. That is, society hasn’t collapsed, just my sector, but I’m not competitive so must still find work. It’s already sort of true: fewer people are doing more work in fewer jobs, and the trend looks to continue. If I lose this job, it’s vanishingly unlikely that I’d be hired, the usual problem of jobseekers in their 50s and 60s.
That said, there are a lot of ways to earn between white-collar work and farm labour. I know that. But I also see American exceptionalism: it can’t happen here. We’re special, we’re protected. I think it probably won’t happen, but it clearly can happen anywhere. Lebanon and Iran used to be lovely.
Health care. Like a nursing home or personal elderly or disabled care. Don’t retrain, that’s a scam for that age group.
When the illegal immigrants are deported the jobs they open will not pay very much.
Yeah, I should have used a sarcasm tag. Not only will they not pay, no one will want to do them. Enjoy your $10 head of lettuce.
Fuck, the inflation index on lettuce is out of control! I don’t even want to guess at what eggplant is going for. No wonder the local Lebanese restaurant is charging a premium for mutabbal!
Stranger