Save face? In who’s eyes? The people who voted for them to be their advocates? How does that work?
Aye. Fuck them. And be open about it too: “we’re not going to help these fucking jerks fuck this shit up; they’re fucking it up all on their own”.
Pretty much.
Right; because that hasn’t seen the Republicans gain control over more and more local, state and federal elected positions over the past 2 decades, has it?
Your preferred strategy is the strategy of losers who will have already ceded procedural control over to the opposition of the entire federal government for the last 2 years and possibly 2 more (we’ll see in November, eh).
Fuck that. It is worth being emotionally invested in elections: did you miss the recent immigration debacle? Do you fail to fully grasp how heinous that policy was? Right now, I’m thinking that you do.
Strong is not the same as dysfunctional. Assertive is not the same as aggressive. And in this case, capitulation is not the same as “sane and reasonable opposition”.
ETA: I wonder: did the OP post a similar thread in 2016, urging the GOP to confirm Merrick Garland asap?
@ TonySinclair — I agree with your point that making Republicans angry is not the path to victory.
But. Kavanaugh is on record thinking Congress should give the Prez immunity? And he’s the man chosen by Prez Asshole himself? The Constitution is a supple document.
I’ll bet that if the question of Trump’s immunity comes before the Supreme Court, Kavanaugh will side with the evil-doers. Do we have a bet? One pennyweight of diazepam?
What a stupid question. The world has changed a lot since then, so it’s a completely different situation now. Even if it weren’t, the fact that I did or didn’t would have relevance only to my consistency, not to the merits of my argument.
Actually, I don’t remember, but I probably posted something to the effect that McConnell was an asshole for not allowing Obama his pick. So in that sense, I am being consistent. Except I wouldn’t call Schumer an asshole if he drags this out; I’d just think he was tragically wrong.
What I do remember posting in early 2016 was the hope that Trump would become the Republican nominee, because I thought he was a joke and would lose in a landslide.
I was half right.
So what are you suggesting? That the Democrats should beat the Republicans by becoming just like the Republicans? If they do, why would it matter which party we vote for?
Democrats need to get the message out that there is a difference between the two parties. That the Democrats are right and the Republicans are wrong. And then they need to tell people why being right matters.
No, but I would bet the same way for anyone Trump nominated, so that’s irrelevant. What IS relevant is that no matter what the Court decides about indicting a sitting President, Trump can be indicted if he’s impeached and convicted. And the only way that will happen is if Dems win a lot of seats in November. That is my goal, and I think it’s a much better goal than showing people that Dems will fight for a lost cause.
Betcha if you went to a pro-life message board today, right now…you already know what you’ll see. Us monkeys is predictable. LifeLover1092 demands that any candidate for SCOTUS must clearly and forcefully articulate a determination to pound a flaming stake in the dark heart of Roe v. Wade. Anything less is not good enough to support.
Babysaver 322 points out that Kavanaugh was vetted by a dedicated pro-lifer, no need to rock the boat, get the other side all upset…KillRoeWasHere calls BS on that, been working on it for years, voting, donating, supporting and today is PAYDAY, dammit! Who cares what those losers think, ram it down their throats, they probably like that sort of thing anyway! DiaperDan chimes in, maybe we could be nicer, draw some flies…
KillRoeWasHere pops up with the news that Pence was interviewed, saying that neither he nor Trump knew if Kavanaugh even had a position, they didn’t ask, no “litmus test” because that’s not good…proof positive that the Republicans were going to betray their trust again! They must all write and email everybody and demand…you know the drill.
(The Pence thing is for real, by the way. CNN, I think.)
The Democrats probably can’t stop the nomination but putting up a good fight will excite their base which is important for the upcoming elections. Furthermore attacking the pro-business parts of his record is a good way of promoting their own economic message and highlighting how Trump’s populism is largely a sham ; this could help them regain some voters they have lost recently as well as attract uncommitted voters. They should also highlight that Roe V Wade, which is pretty popular, is in danger.
Democrats have to reconcile themselves to a conservative SCOTUS majority for probably the next decade but they can turn lemons into lemonade. Much of the conservative judicial agenda is unpopular and a useful foil for Democrats to help them win elections which is what ultimately matters. Furthermore, the more energetically Democrats attack that agenda, the the tougher it will be for the justices to enact it.
How many times did Republicans vote to abolish Obamacare when it had no chance of passing the Senate? Like 50?
And where did that get them? Majority control of the entire federal government.
If they do what you advocate, the Democrats will look horrible and they will surely snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the mid-terms. That would be an epic disaster, and they’re taking a big risk if they go out of their way to obstruct without making a solid case to do so. They might have an argument, but it can’t be “We’re not putting another conservative on the bench”
Some have argued that the real error was made by Obama. He should have answered Mitch McConnell’s obstructionism with some constitutional tricks of his own and appointed his own justice to the bench and dared the Republicans to fight him on it. That’s a strategy that actually might have worked, but we’ll never know.
This is what has to happen - full stop. The voters have to come out and vote against plutocratic rule and they have to vote for the preservation of their democracy. If they throw a fit and stay at home because Democrats don’t successfully obstruct or don’t shut down the government, then they’re basically stabbing themselves in the eye with a pencil.
Some voters wanted purity in 2016 and stayed home or voted third party. What we got was Neil Gorsuch. We got a trade war. We got inhumane detention camps with refugees treated like animals. We got a president and a party that is more aligned with Russia’s interests than with our own. We got a Muslim ban. We got corruption and graft like this country’s never seen. We’ve got a president and our party threatening freedom of the press and threatening to end the rule of law. If this isn’t enough to motivate the average progressive voter, then our republic is fucked.
You vote against Trumpism. Period. End of discussion. You don’t need another reason to show up and vote.
…you do realize that the GOP had a majority in the Senate then, right? If the Dems had a majority in the Senate now, I’m guessing
Sorry: “I’m guessing the OP’s advice would be different.”
This shit crazy. Make Democrats look horrible and crazy? Compared to what? Trump? LOL. I can’t wait till we snatch the Democratic party from white folks. Ya’ll ruining it.
The Democrats need to think outside the box, maybe they can all go round licking ill people in hospital then go cough all over the Republican Senators, challenge Trump to a duel, eat so many beans that the senate building gets so farty no-one can speak, fling their poop at the speaker, blast airhorns whenever someone tries to bring something up for a vote, all the male senators get naked and rub themselves all over the republican’s stuff so they don’t want to be in the room.
Or all the above at once.
If they don’t do that, they clearly love Trump.
If he can be impeached. Remember, Kavanaugh is on record as saying that it shouldn’t be possible to even investigate the President, and it’s hard to impeach without an investigation.
Which is, of course, why Trump nominated him. He’s scared shitless of Mueller, and wants to shut him down, because he has too much to hide. Like the fact that he’s flat broke and deep in debt. Like the fact that he enjoys being sexually humiliated. And yes, like the fact that he’s on Putin’s payroll.
And that’s the message that we need to get out.
EDIT: And, of course, the fact that that’s the only reason that Trump nominated him. He doesn’t give a damn about abortion, or about any other conservative issues: He just wants someone to protect him because he’s scared, and that’s all he wants.
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Midterms are all about turning out your voters. Maybe Presidential elections are about appealing to the median voter (although I believe this less as time goes by, but I digress), but midterms aren’t. Give Dem voters reason to show up and vote.
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You don’t enthuse your voters by rolling over and playing dead.
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It’s true that the Dems are unlikely to win this particular fight. But I’m with Josh Marshall: if you can’t win a fight like this, it’s important to lose well. This is a fight where the Dems can highlight the differences between the two parties. Not just Roe: Kavanaugh’s consistently ruled in favor of big corporations and against consumers, employees, unions. Here’s a good example:
Why should businesses be penalized if their whales have a persistent habit of eating the help? Jeez.
Yeah, fight this one. Fight like hell. Demand to see all the Bush-era and Starr Inquisition documents Kavanaugh wrote or signed off on. Drag this out, every day or two, bring up a new example of when Kavanaugh voted for the corporations and against ordinary people, make sure the voters know exactly who the GOP is voting for, when it votes to put this horrible excuse for a human being on the Supreme Court.
Maybe it’ll even give Collins or Murkowski enough indigestion to vote against him. (Not expecting it, but one can hope. But I don’t buy the argument that another nominee would be even worse - how much worse can s/he be? This guy will vote the GOP-approved way 99.5% of the time.)
Twenty months ago, I assumed Obamacare was doomed. (It’s in the intensive care ward, sure, but it’s still alive aenough to insure people.) But we fought the good fight last year, and kept Congress, at least, from killing it. And Dem approval went up, and GOP and Trump approval went down.
Fighting the big battles is the right thing to do.
Just to be clear, he has argued that Congress should pass such a law, not that such a law already exists.
Yes, hence why I said “shouldn’t”, not “isn’t”.