I think it has been adequately proven that the red dot that indicate water damage can change because because of things completely unrelated to water damage such as a humid environment. Is it legal for a manufacturer to deny coverage under their warranty on the basis of just the red dot? What if the problem is not even water related but a mechanical problem like a broken button?
Or is this a YMMV depending on jurisdiction?
What red dot?
I once had a bit of an argument about this with a Verizon tech.
It went something like this.
V: Water damage, this isn’t covered.
Me: It’s never been submerged or splashed other than brief rain moving from vehicle to building, how could water get in there?
V: Condensation.
Me: Like coming inside during the winter and moving from a below freezing environment to a warm moist office? Or going from a warm home to my car in below freezing weather?
V: Yes, just like that.
Me: So, my mobile phone can not go between temperature extremes? Meaning that it’s not able to be mobile in any weather that is outside of 65F-75F? I can’t take it when I’m mobile?
V: Well, that’s not what I mean, but if the sensor is tripped, then it got wet.
Me: <continue along this line of thought until he gave up>:smack:
I ended up getting the service I needed, but those are entirely too sensitive IMO.
2013 article from Consumerist (with link to a Wired article):
$53M Apple iPhone Warranty Settlement Centers On Those Pesky Water Damage Strips
It’s a YMMV depending on jurisdiction and the terms of the underlying warranty.
Is it legal? Depends on jurisdiction, as has been mentioned.
But just because it is not illegal, doesn’t mean it can’t be grounds for a civil lawsuit.
Of course pursuit of a civil case will most likely be more expensive than the item, even if it is a car. This is where class-action claims can be very useful. Maybe nobody can afford to sue the manufacturer, but everybody can…if they band together.
Presumably you’ve figured it out based on subsequent posts but most cell phones have a little dot sticker inside the phone that turns red if it gets wet. The warranty doesn’t cover phones dropped in the pool or toilet so if they open the phone and see the dot is red you’re screwed.
See the third picture down on this page.
First of all: did YOU see the red dot, or did they get it, open it up and then tell you the dot was red? Because we’ve had no one but *two *phones that we checked for the red dot before sending them in, found no red dot, and they claimed red dots at their end. We demanded to see timestamped photographs of the phone with the serial number and the red dot…and they replaced the phones free of charge. (Two phones a year apart, both with the extra insurance from T-Mobile.)
They lie, in other words. They tell you there’s water damage where there is none, so they don’t have to hold up their end of the bargain. :mad:
In other words… well that can be the real problem…
the technician says its FLUID damage (water, oil, cooking oil, solvent…) , the person you are talking to you changes the words and says “the dot is red”…
the dot might not be red (due to fault at manufacture, or from end user polluting it somehow…), or just the water got in at some spot but didnt get to the red dot… but the technician may still see fluid related corrosion and say its “water damage”… Ah yes the technician may be seeing CORROSION, but he uses OTHER WORDS, and say “water damage”…
Wait, phone warranties don’t cover water damage? Seriously? Why in the hell do people buy them? You end up paying a total cost of about 50% of the cost of the phone (plus deductible?) and it doesn’t even cover a major source of damage? That’s an even bigger rip-off than I thought.
Talking about the manufacturer’s warranties, not the optional “replacement plans” or “insurance.”
I was in a VZW store a few months back and a clerk was talking to a couple about getting their phone replaced. He was being kind of a jackass right off the bat, but he started to pop the cover off to check for the dot and the customer said ‘it’s never been in water’ and he replied ‘well, even having it in the bathroom during a hot shower or in your pocket while you’re running on a hot day can trigger it’ (in a jackass ‘I’m gonna deny this one way or another’ manner).
But, you’re right, if having them in humid environments trips the sensor they should either come with a warning or not be sold in humid markets. That just seems like they’re trying to break the warranty.
You got the new phone, so it worked, but I’m not sure I understand how demanding for a time stamped picture would help. It’s not like it’s policy for them to take a picture of the phone when they receive it, so all someone has to do is put some water on the little strip, wait for the dot to show up, take the picture and send it to you.
Anyways, they do sell replacement dots on ebay, but A)Make sure you get the right one for your phone and B)it’s probably not worth it, I understand there’s another (or more) dot somewhere deeper in the phone, so just replacing that one in the battery compartment might get you past the guy at the front counter, but the guy in the backroom will catch it (or the techs when you send it in).
All the rest of your post was mostly redundant.
Ah, but I was gambling on human nature, that there wouldn’t actually be a picture. I never thought any such photograph existed. But the poor schlub on the phone, when I told him of course we’d pay for it once they furnished some proof of the water damage like aforementioned picture, said of course, he had that in the computer, and he’d pull it up…in…just a second…oh. Turns out they didn’t have such a picture. No shit.
At that point, rather than admit they didn’t have any proof (and not thinking about the fact that they didn’t have any proof because gathering evidence is not a thing they do), they sent us a new phone. Twice.
You don’t always have to beat the system. Sometimes you just have to beat the person.
And, as I said, I was positive, both times, that there was no water damage when it left my possession. I knew that, absent actual fabrication of evidence, which I didn’t really think they’d do, they could not have a photograph of my phone with water damage when it came in.
Did they say they had a picture, in which case that’s totally different.
About a year ago we had an issue with UPS delivering a package. They kept claiming it was delivered, I kept claiming it wasn’t (I’m a ‘shipper’ not just an individual, if that makes a difference). At one point they said they had ‘proof’ (they might have said they had a signature). I said ‘oh, that’s great, could you email me the proof of delivery?’. He almost instantly said ‘uh, we’re going to do some more research’.
I knew it wasn’t delivered, I talked to the recipient, I even called the neighbors. On top of that, it’s a gated community with a person that man’s the gate. Any attempt to deliver it would have been successful as the person at the gate would have taken it.
Anyways, I asked how they would research it and they said they could check the driver’s GPS logs. Long story short, I got my refund on the shipping + package contents.
Never, ever, hurts to push back, at least a little. Worst case scenario, they say ‘no’ and you’re right where you are now.
Question everything.
Exactly. I kind of tricked him. But not really. It went something like this:
“I’m sorry, the water indicators show moisture damage, so it’s not covered.”
Me: “Oh, oh, I see…that’s weird. We checked for that before we sent it and there wasn’t.”
Him: “Well, there are inductors that turn colors…”
Me: “Of course, of course…and you must have proof, right? I mean, you’re not going to expect me just to take your word for it. You could just tell everyone they have water damage and never pay a thing!”
Nervous laughter…
“So, you’ve got, like, a picture with a timestamp? Something, right? Some proof? Just send me that and I’ll pay.”
“Oh, yeah…we’ve got…it’s…hang on…it’s right…um…let me see…” about 5 minutes pass, alternating frantic typing and with me on hold… “I’m going to have a supervisor call you…”
Next day, supervisor called, phone would be replaced.
There were never any pictures. Didn’t have to be. They knew that evidence of some sort was not an outrageous request, and they couldn’t provide it after they said they had it. Even Judge Judy wouldn’t stand for that shit.