Deodorant stone=effective? Deodorant in general=Alzheimer's?

Factual Questions
1

When in Thailand, a friend gave me a chunk of “deodorant stone”, which he said was extremely effective as well as all-natural. I didn’t really think it was effective, but I was skeptical at the start and only tried it a few days. Recently I see it being sold on e-shops and in health stores, with the same claims (“the MOST effective deodorant!” and “all natural!”). Has anyone tried it with good results?

There is also some debate about the deodorant stone (containing aluminum) being linked to Alzheimer’s Disease. Most websites I found were retailers, so they address the as complete bunk. Incidently, I’ve also heard that regular-fare deodorants and anit-perspirants contain aluminum that is readily absorbed into the body and a suspect cause of Alzheimer’s as well as breast cancer. Again, I find numerous websites on both sides of this issue. Can anyone provide a non-biased scientific viewpoint?

2

I suspect that a definitive answer will be some time in coming, perhaps decades, perhaps a lifetime. Thus, act now, or wait and possibly suffer the consequences.

As a fibromyalgia victim, I try to avoid aluminum at all costs, as it has been implicated in triggering this disease, too. (I am now in remission, due mainly to my diet.) I don’t use aluminum pans or aluminum-based deodorants. I don’t take aluminum-based antacids or drink from aluminum cans. I don’t drink city-flavored water, as alum (aluminum sulfate) is used, and, when combined with the fluoride used in the treatment of water, creates aluminum flouride, a molecule that is hard for the body to secrete. Elemental aluminum does not pass through the blood-brain barrier, but certain aluminum compunds, such as aluminum flouride, do pass through this barrier, causing possibly dangerous or toxic results. (I can’t cite deaths, but many sources mention toxicity.)

It’s pretty easy to avoid some major sources of aluminum, so why not try it?

I think aluminum is actually used in deodorants as an antiperspirant. Try Tom’s of Maine deodorant, with no aluminum. It’s sold in natural food stores, and they have a web site.

As to sources that are a “non-biased scientific viewpoint”, I think that very little objective, long-term testing has been done.

I highly recommend “Prescription for Nutritional Healing”, written by Dr. James Balch (ISBN 1-58333-077-1). He has several sections on aluminum, Alzheimers, etc.

“Optimum Sports Nutrition” by Dr. Michael Colgan (ISBN 0-9624840-5-9) is a great reference, as well. He points out that aluminum is dangerous, yet is treated by the FDA and the general public as safe. He goes on to compare it to lead, which the FDA insisted was safe in our drinking water and food supply, until the FDA reversed course in 1986.

“Vitamins for Dummies” By Dr. Elson Haas (ISBN 0-7645-5179-5) even discusses aluminum toxicity.

A quick search on Barnes and Noble turned up “Toxic Metal Syndrome” by Casdorph and Walker (ISBN 0-8952-9649-7), which may cite aluminum research.

3

First of all, antiperspirants contain aluminum (aluminum chloride, aluminum sulafate, etc.) deodorants do not. It is the aluminum that prevents perspiration no matter if it comes in a rock, stick, roll-on, aerosol, whatever. There are a few antiperspirants on the market that use something other than aluminum but they are really in the minority.
The Alzheimer’s Association (http://www.alz.org/ResourceCenter/FactSheets/FSAluminum.pdf) and the American Psychiatric Association (http://www.psych.org/public_info/alzheim.cfm#causes) both deny that aluminum causes Alzheimer’s disease. Higher levels of aluminum have been found in the brain tissue of Alzheimer’s victims, but there is not a strong enough link to prove which came first. There is a theory that the Alzheimer’s disease itself allows more aluminum to be absorbed into the body. There is no clear link either way.
I was not familiar with the claim regarding breast cancer. I went to the website of the American Cancer Society (http://documents.cancer.org/6148.00/). They say that rumor is also false.

4

Cecil Adams on aluminum/deodorant and breast cancer and Alzheimer’s.

5

As for the effectiveness of these stones - my wife and I bought stone deodorants in a chain pharmacy in 1999. It was a mainstream commercial product in a normal-looking deodorant stick plastic container, you pushed the bottom up to make the stone come up the top. Blue package for boys, pink for girls, I think the contents were exactly the same, a slightly cloudy stone like a really hard lump of salt. Cost about 3X the price of a normal deodorant. You moisten the stone end and smear your pits, it’s invisible after application.

Anyway, my wife didn’t like it so I got both. I use it weekdays after I shower in the morning, on weekends I use a normal deodorant. Conclusion? The best deodorant I ever used, never fails, never have B.O. even on a hot summer day, lasts forever so very cost effective.

6

Sounds like the same stuff I tried, Fyodor. I stunk to high heaven using it. A friend swore by it but warned me you had to use it for several weeks before it worked. I stuck with it for well over a month before giving up. I think it was actually getting worse as time went on. The stone itself started reeking of BO. I tried washing it with soap–no effect. As soon as I’d put it on… yuck.

So that’s one vote against for effectiveness. (Note that normal deodorant or antiperspirant–even store brand cheap stuff–works perfectly fine for me.)

7

I used deodorant stones for a long time, and was pretty happy with them. They controlled my BO and lasted a really long time.

Then I forgot to take it on vacation and bought an antiperspirant instead, and rediscovered the refreshing sensation of not having damp armpits all the time.

So I switched back.

8

I am glad to see that I am not alone, Calladair, as the stone didn’t work for me at all, so I used it for less than a week before giving it up. I found out that I had horrendous B.O. without my usual anti-perspirant stick.

As for the Alzheimer’s part of the question, I realize it’s undetermimed. So has anyone else had good or bad results with the deodorant stone? So far it’s good=2, bad=2.

9

Well, my wife says I smell good all the time so maybe I have a different chemistry.

I’ve got the commercial product here at my 'puter… “Naturally Fresh Deodorant Crystal”, “100% pure and natural”, “the natural alternative to conventional deodorants”, “to unlock the power of this amazing crystal…forms a protective barrier against odour causing bacteria”, “environmentally safe”, “no harmful chemicals” “contains: natural mineral salts, Ammonium Alum.”

10

Slight hijack: does anyone know which bacterial organism produces the “BO” scent? I would think the deodorant companies would have researched this to death. (It certainly is an organism. I can totally kill off my BO for weeks at a time, but it comes back full force if I wear an old unwashed shirt for just a couple of hours.)

11

deoderant stone - sounds like a scam. Most people don’t really need deoderant - probably using it alot you kill your natural bacteria. Wash using water and don’t use deoderant and most people will not smell.

12

I don’t know about your home town scm1001, but the modern city I live in had some water restrictions imposed during a dry spell last summer. I’m not sure of the wisdom behind your theory that people should preserve their natural bacteria by giving up deodorant and taking more showers. I think the 300 million + North Americans would have a marked effect on their municipal water supplies if they doubled or tripled their showering.

I can also tell you, from years of working in offices in cities in central Asia, when you work with four or five people jammed into every office room, and it’s 45C outside, and the municipal water supply is cut off for days at a time, you will put deodorant on an alter and worship it like a god.

I did work under those conditions and it was interesting. When everybody stinks, and I mean stink, you get used to it and you’re not realy self-conscious about it. At first, it can give you an instant head-ache, walking into a crowded room with a B.O. stench that you’d think would peel paint off the walls, far worse than any locker room I’ve ever been in. Once you get used to it it’s not so bad.

But here I am discussing deodorant theory with someone who can’t spell the word.

13

Chalk another one up for the stone. I’ve used it occasionally and found it to be quite effective. Protection even can last a couple days, depending on the conditions. Totally blocked body odour.

14

I’ve found the “stone” more effective than many non-anti-perspirant deodorants from Tom’s or other small companies. The Tom’s I use has a pleasing coriander scent, but it soon deteriorates to coriander plus sweat.

15

scm1001 - what Fyodor said.

Stone users, if you want an all natural deodorant, you can mix cornstarch (as filler), alum, and baking soda. Heck, you can throw a little charcoal in, as well. There are a number of herbs and twigs (mint, cinnamon, and suchlike) that have long been touted as effective for odor control as well. Folk types also suggest drinking plenty of water and avoiding coffee and alcohol.

I have never like the stone, because it makes me itch like crazy, just as most anti-perspirants do.

As long as we are on this grody subject, I find that my worst body odor (which, to be fair, is probably not bad) is caused by being bundled up all day in a cold climate. This may not be because slow and steady light sweat is the worst though. It’s possible that, being bundled up all day, I have no idea what is going on with my body until I strip to shower. It’s also possible that, in cold weather, I drink less water and more coffee.

And, to be grody to the max, I can stand honest body odor (i.e., the smell of a person who has been hard at work all day) but the scent of someone who just plain stinks but tries to cover it up with perfume makes me want to ralph. When someone walks into my office with that “haven’t dared to suffer the shock of a shower in more than week” funk working in concert with an overdose of perfume… well, it’s takes all I’ve got to remain nutral.

16

I can’t use anti-perspirants, because they make me itch so badly. I would use them infrequently when being non-smelly was extra-important, but most of the time, I used plain deodorants, which I don’t think worked at all. They just added a little perfume smell to the odor. My wife has a radar nose, so I was always fighting with this problem.

So one day about ten years ago I picked up one of those deodorant crystals, and the first person to notice the huge difference was my wife. It really eliminates the BO smell, and it started doing so the first day I used it. The crystal will last three years or so of regular use, if you don’t drop it.

A couple of years ago, I had to wear a medical boot thing which kept my ankle from flexing. Four or five days into my six-week time with it, it really started to smell. So I then started putting the crystal deodorant on my foot, and on the foam padding of the boot, and the odor problem went away. I would reapply it once a week or so, and never had that problem again.

A couple of weeks ago, I bought the same mineral salt kind of product, but instead of being a crystal, it’s a suspension in some think liquid, so that it’s in a roll-on package. This too works well, but I don’t expect it to last nearly as long. I needed something that I could apply more easily, because I broke my collar bone and am wearing a contraption that encircles each shoulder, and connects them together in the back. The foam pads go under my armpits, and I have to wear it 24 hours a day for six weeks, so you can see the potential odor problem. So far (two weeks), the deodorant is working well.

17

I’ve tried the stone with good results. A piece of it is nice to bring on long backpacking trips, too – makes you feel cleaner the 4th day in if you can control your stink a bit.

I have no opinion otherwise on how it compares to regular deodorant & antipersperant.

18

My current “day job” is at the Indiana University School of Medicine (Psychiatric Research Institute), under Dr. Debomoy Lahiri. We work on Alzheimer’s disease. Currently, there are three competing theories regarding the immediate cause of the symptoms:

Amyloid plaque is somehow neurotoxic. (Amyloid plaque is buildup of the “A-beta” portion of a vital neuronal protein known as “Amyloid Precursor Protein”–bad name, but proteins are often named before their actual healthy function is known.)

The “Tau” particle is somehow neurotoxic. (Tau is another one of those proteins.)

Intraneuronal “fibrillar tangles” (of another otherwise necessary protein) are neurotoxic.

Each hypothesis has evidence supporting it, but none are conclusive. My own lab leans toward the amyloid plaque hypothesis.

Now, as to what causes the disorder, that’s far more complicated than a lot of pop “medicine” and “nutrition” books would have one believe. Aluminum has long since been pretty much knocked out of the picture as a causative agent, though. There are some types of Alzheimer’s that are definitely due to mutations in the Amyloid Precursor Protein DNA sequence. They’re in the minority. A polymorphism pair has been found in the upstream region of the APP gene that has a strong correlation with Family-Associated early-onset Alzheimer’s. But it’s also not the majority type of Alzheimer’s. Likewise, proteins like “BACE” (Beta Amyloid Cleaving Enzyme), various cytokines (Interleukin-1, Interleukin-6), and the ubiquitous Transforming Growth Factor beta (TGF-b) have also been implicated. Part of the problem with untangling the mess is that the disease involves proteins that are always found in normal brains and that have been shown to be necessary for normal brain development and functioning. A summary of current thought on the issue can be found in a recent review article, referenced in Medline thus:

and

But a simple target like “aluminum is bad” was one of those very preliminary results that the popular press and quacks fixated on since it was an easy answer. The reality may be far more complex, tied into normal brain chemistry, the immune system, and a whole host of currently uncharacterized environmental factors.

19

CurtC - what the heck are you doing! Be more careful. I don’t care what you smell like, but stop breaking bones!!!

20

Switched deodorants may times, and all of them eventually failed me on hot days. I never used aerosols, but (WARNING – Too much information ahead!!) roll-ons and sticks tended to melt and solidify in such a way that ripped out my armpit hair in great chunks when I worked. Sticks also tended to irritate my skin for some reason.

Didn’t try the stone until I read a package that described what it was. Previously, I had assumed it was some yuppie/new age crystal that was supposed to mystically prevent me from smelling if I waved it near my pits and chanted.

Tried it. LOVED IT! Never failed. In terms of effectiveness, the best deodorant I have ever used.

However, it IS extremely inconvenient. Your pits are wet for awhile (and you need to spread it over agreater area), and the package (if it has one) has holes to keep water from collecting and dissolving the stone all at once, so you end up with water all over your sink counter, or wherever you store it. Then there are the situations where you get ready to travel in the morning, use your stone, and then must protect your luggage from the copious runnoff as well as keep the stone from dissolving in it. Worst of all, although I tried several different brands, the stone would always dissolve in a way that gave it EXTREMELY sharp ridges that my skin, shall we say, didn’t appreciate at all.

I’ve recently switched to a gel, and so far, so good.

As for Alzheimer’s, there was some work done in the early nineties that seemed to point a correlation between the disease and aluminum in the system, but I understand that studies done to explore the connection further failed to support that correlation.