Long story short, I received some information that male members of management are paid more than female members, regardless of experience. One of those alleged to be paid more than me is someone who I used to be the boss of. I found this out via the friend of a manager who approached me when I was discussing my second job.
I’m speaking to someone with more experience in these matters tomorrow, however my dad told me that it’s nearly impossible to prove discrimination in these cases and I should just get another job. That’s what I’m trying to do, it’s just an incredibly depressing task. I also feel like a fool. I know I should be grateful to have a job, but when I know I could potentially be making more it sucks.
Pay scales if the company is big enough are actually fairly easy to prove - provided the company hasn’t been smart about it (slightly different job titles, even then when 95% of women are grade 32 managers and 95% of men are grade 33 managers - it isn’t a good sign). Its statistics. However, you’ll need an attorney willing to work it and your career there will likely be finished, but you might get some damages (after attorney fees).
If you’re willing to deal with the backlash, you could talk to the EEOC if you’re in the USA. They actually DO take gender discrimination seriously, and if you have more qualifications and the job is equal or ranked higher than your counterpart and he’s getting paid more, you might have a case.
Couldn’t hurt to talk to an employment lawyer if you’re really unhappy about it. Just be prepared for severe fallout. Reprisal is illegal, but that won’t stop them from doing it, they’ll just be sneaky about it.
Within my region there are seven of us. Three women, four men. My informant only knew about those within my city specifically- two of the men are out of state. Her allegation was that the two male managers within the city were hired at a higher pay rate and at least one was given an opportunity for bonuses that was not given as an option to a female who held the same position.
The small nature of the company may be what makes this difficult to prove.
ETA: The company is much larger than just us seven. She’s alleging that it’s a specific boss who is discriminating.
Is it possible that the men negotiated the higher pay and bonuses at the time of hire? I think the issue isn’t that they’re paid more, but whether or not the initial offer (or advertised pay rate) was for more money in the same position/level of experience as yours. If you were all offered the same pay for the job, and you accepted it but the men kept talking and moved the offer up that’s not discrimination, just a smarter conversation about what the job will pay if accepted.
If its a specific boss that is discriminating, call HR and let them know you heard a rumor. Ask for a review of salaries by gender with years of experience and performance appraisal scores accounted for.
It is possible that this is just a rumor. It is also possible that something like moejoe suggested happened - statistically, women take the salary offered to them at hire, men negotiate. But if it is one boss and not endemic to the company, HR might actually be in your corner - because they don’t want a lawsuit either.
(BTW, I did this - twenty years ago - and the women all got raises - not back pay, but raises).
It is possible that they negotiated higher salaries. I was given a pre-filled in paper to sign with the given salary and at the time I didn’t realize how low it was (in comparison to similar positions) or that I could even negotiate since the salary was in writing. So this could be my own stupidity.
I know it’s not entirely a rumor as I was presented with actual numbers and the information about the bonus for one person.
I am going to call the EEOC tomorrow morning to see if there’s any basis for a claim. Otherwise I’ll spend all my spare time looking for a new job.
…and try to improve your negotiation skills before signing on the dotted line of the next pre-filled form. Also, be prepared to walk away from a low offer. If you’re in a position to do so.
This is disheartening. I had the same experience in 1976 at a university and we all got both raises and back pay. I had a similar experience in 1982 or so, and I got back pay and pay until I found another job (I got fired for being female). Wow. I wish I hadn’t read this thread since so many people seem to think this is a lost cause. When did the pendulum swing back so that discrimination on the basis of gender is ok again? I hope the EEOC helps you. That’s who helped me in the second case I mentioned.
You voluntarily agreed to your salary, with no negotiation.
You know of only 2 others (yes, both happen to be male) who get a higher salary, but you have no way of knowing how they negotiated salary before they began.
Where’s the rampant, company-wide policy of sexist discrimination?
It looks to me more like a question of naivety on your part when you took the job.
I guess I’ll just leave then. I applied for a different position within the company and outlined my accomplishments- that went ignored. I did negotiate later by stating that my increased responsibilities meant that my salary no longer covered it, however I am only eligible for a very small raise (less than $1000) and that’s in a few months. The other option was to resign from my position and take one with less responsibility, which I did, except I’m stuck in my current position as they can’t find anyone to fill it.
Barring comments made by an employer, it is almost impossible to prove any kind of salary discrimination in a group of seven people. If I tossed a coin 7 times and it came up heads every time, that wouldn’t be strong evidence statistically to prove the coin was rigged. Now if I threw the coin 100 times and it came up heads every time…well the chance of an unbiased coin doing that would be 1.26 x 10[sup]30[/sup] to 1, and I think Occam’s Razor would tell us there’s probably something fishy going on.
But this is the more important thing in the first post to me:
Why? What is this thing in modern culture that tells us “I worked hard at school, got great experience, kicked butt in my interview, but now I have to credit my successes to ‘luck’”? I can tell you that I, for one, hate my own job with a passion but because of family issues I’m stuck with it for the time being (even if that time being is only a few months until I can find something else). I don’t feel grateful or fortunate at all to have this job. In fact, I feel like I deserve MORE than this job, one where I don’t have sh*t shoveled on me on a daily basis and where I can actually feel like I make some difference to those who need it. For me, who because of my mental illness struggles every day with throwing all I have out the window, this is what keeps me from doing it. For you, feeling you deserve what you have in life will let you, well, LIVE.
Whether or not a “rampant, company-wide policy” is blatantly sexist isn’t the standard. Neither are the odds of a random coin flip. Those things might be accurate ways of talking about proving cases in general, but that’s different from saying an individual person can’t prove her individual case because there are only seven employees involved.
The question here is whether a female employee makes less money than similarly-situated male employees, and if so, whether the employer can produce a legitimate reason for that. You can’t just shrug your shoulders and say, well, there are only seven of them, who can say why the four men all get higher salaries and bonuses; shit happens. To be clear, “the men all were offered the lower salaries and demanded higher ones, and the women all accepted the lower salaries,” would qualify as a legitimate reason, but if true it would probably be able to be substantiated, since these were written offers. And you’d think that information would be worth something to the OP, at least; I mean, it would mean that she wasn’t discriminated against, and that she should have some bargaining power. And that’s good.
Sounds like companies are just getting better at hiding it.
CatherineZeta, I say keep trying to pursue a fix if you think there’s a problem. Don’t just assume it’s your own fault for not negotiating harder. It might actually be your own fault but the company probably doesn’t want to deal with having such rumors about pay become public. You’ll never know the real situation unless you dig deeper.
Thanks for the advice. I called the EEOC and they said to mail in a form and then I can meet with someone to discuss the situation. I also have an interview tomorrow for another position. Will keep sending out resumes.
In regards to being grateful for having a job, all I meant is I could be in a much worse situation. A former co-worker contacted me to inform me that she is now unemployed, couch surfing, broke, tried to reapply but was rejected, etc. Although I’m pretty angry and frustrated by my situation, at least my problems aren’t on that level.
I’m not getting your sense of betrayal or being wronged. Salaried positions are often negotiated, it’s what professionals are expected to do. If you didn’t do this it’s pretty much all on you and any one else (including other women) who took the initial deal without haggling.