They made the playoffs during every year of his prime. They’ve missed the playoffs only twice during his career: 2008 and (presumably) this year.
We could do that, but there’s the issue of sample size. His regular season numbers in his prime were pretty consistent but his playoff numbers were not, especially from series to series. I’m not sure there’s any correlation between his regular-season and playoff results from year to year.
If Jeter said this, we’d call him Captain Obvious.
But they also went deeper into the playoffs in some years than others, and if he was having better seasons at the time, it would help his overall numbers.
I’m sure it would be possible to come up with some system of calculating a weighted average of sorts.
Not that it would necessarily be worthwhile, however. He’s obviously had an outstanding career, both in the regular season and in the post-season, first ballot HOFer etc. Even if your point wouldn’t hold, it wouldn’t take away from that.
It was your point - don’t look at me.
Yes, he’ll be in the hall. He was a very good player. I don’t think there are many better players who are not in the hall, barring those tainted by the steroid issue.
He’s nowhere as good as his reputation, and he was never, as far as I know, even above average as a shortstop. But he’s photogenic, playing for a very popular team that won a ton so he is ESPN’s darling, and he seems like a nice guy.
Post-season, Jeter played 158 games, almost exactly one season equivalent.
Reg. season average: BA .309 OPS . 817 HR 13 RBI 65
Post season average: BA .308 OPS .838 HR 20 RBI 61
Pretty close to a wash, and a full-season equivalent is the sample size that is large enough that it is used to award MVP and CYA, not to mention league championship, which nobody objects to.
Twenty productive seasons is enough to get just about anybody up to the lifetime stats that they are in the conversation for HoF, and pnistripes is sure an added bonus. About a quarter of the voters for HoF live in New York City.
Joe DiMaggio isn’t a real Hall of Famer?
Seriously, though, the Jeter thing is getting tiresome. He was a great player. Lots of great players in baseball history and none got this treatment. He isn’t Baseball Jesus, he’s about the sixtieth or seventieth best baseball player of all time. That’s saying a lot, but he’s not Hank Aaron.
There’s hundreds of those?
I wonder how many times a year Derek Jeter actually advances to second base on a sort-of-passed ball where another player wouldn’t have. Jeter was an awesome baserunner but it can’t have happened more than once or twice a year. For the most part his baserunning skill actually IS reflected in the stats, since it inflated his doubles, triples and stolen bases, and they’re working on counting other types of baserunning advancement.
As to the former, if players have stopped trying to pull the ball based on player positioning that’s news to me. They still try to pull even into a Williams shift.
As to the second point, there are no such outfielders - all outfielders with great arms rack up more assists than most other outfielders, no outfielder holds 100 runners a year, and even the most cursory examination of the stats bears this out. Roberto Clemente had outfield assists in double digits almost every year of his career; he threw out 27 men in 1961, an amazing number, long after everyone in the major leagues knew he might have been the best throwing outfielder who ever lived.
“Intangibles” do exist in the clubhouse I am sure, but they’re invisible to people who aren’t there.
Going first to third is probably not reflected, nor is scoring from second on a single, other than to the extent that it’s reflected in his runs numbers.
That’s probably true, but the thing is that in addition to the assists there are also a lot of runners who refrain from taking the extra base out of respect for the guy’s arm, and this is very difficult if not impossible to quantify.
My favorite quote about Jeter comes from Billy Beane. When talking about the famed “flip” play against Oakland, he said that Jeter “even has an elegant way of breaking your heart.”
It is a relatively recent development. It certainly didn’t start with the Yankees. I don’t think it started in baseball. Maybe with Kareem? That was back in 1989. I know they wanted Gretsky to have a farewell tour but he refused. I’m trying to remember all the ones in baseball before Mariano and Jeter. I know about Ripkin and Chipper. I can’t remember others right now. All I can figure is that the leagues feel it’s good for their bottom line.
I’m a big Jeter fan, but these farewell tours should end. They’re too much and take away from the game itself. I did like the Gatorade commercial though and see nothing wrong with it.
Presently extra bases on hits is not reflected in traditional stats on ESPN and such, but it is something they count. You can find this stuff on Fangraphs, it’s all there; they count both extra bases on hits AND getting thrown out attempting them, advancing on fly balls, etc.
An exceptional baserunner - like, absolutely the very, very best baserunner in the major leagues - might add 6, 8 runs to his team over the course of the year. The current MLB leader is Ian Kinsler, who’s having a terrific year at 8.1. The worst baserunner in the majors is one of David Ortiz, James Loney, or Victor Martinez, who are all more or less tied at just under -6. I know that doesn’t sound like a lot but if you actually think through it, there really isn’t any way a player could do more. You just don’t have that many opportunities to take a base in a marginal situation where another player could not.
Now, Jeter was, for most of his career, a first rate baserunner. He was very fast and had excellent judgment. According to Fangraphs, his baserunning skills (excluding basestealing) have amounted toa grand total of 19 runs to the Yankees since they started counting these things in 2001. Since Jeter was probably at the top of his game from 1996-2000 when they weren’t I would say the true number is actually at least more like 30-35 runs. That’s sure better than most guys, but it’s not THAT much. It accounts to adding a win once every six or seven years.
The important point, perhaps, is that this stuff is not intangible. These things are all measured and accounted for if one checks out the really good sites like Fangraphs; they build in in to their assessment of Jeter’s value.
Look Jeter’s “intangibles” boil down to fans really appreciating the way he always ran out everything, his quick jump from the plate, his team first attitude, the fact he never caused any grief or embarrassment for the Yanks or Baseball with his off-field life, playing his entire career for the team he wrote in his high school yearbook of wanting to play for, the way he seemed to elevate his game in pressure situations and the post season, those few times he dove into the stands, that out of nowhere flip play in the playoff game against the A’s, that first ever November Home Run, how fans cannot remember a big game ending with Jeter at the plate. He just always seemed to be part of the big rallies even if there are no stats to prove it. In the 90s he was player on base that Tino, O’Neal and Williams hit in. He was the player that started the 9th inning rally when the Yanks were renown for always coming back. It has been a few years since that was true now, but fans remember.
It is the impression he left on people not hard cold statistics that Jeter is loved for. He is the most popular Yankee since Mickey Mantle and that is not a statistic, that is just absolutely amazing for a non-slugger.
And he snuck in one more of those moments last night with a walk off hit in his final game in pinstripes
It’s only memorable because you remember it. Or something. Anyway, yes, it was a great ending. It would’ve been far better if the game had meant anything, but taken on its own terms as his last game at the Stadium, it was excellent.
He does have his moments, that’s for sure.
I’m late to this party but I just want to chime in and say without any kind of recrimination or anything that this exchange bums me out a little. RickJay’s post was great, and since he posted it, he can’t say it without being sour grapes so I’m going to say it: I honestly cannot understand why you guys don’t think this is cool. Why does what he just said to you not matter?!
You like Jeter because he runs balls out and because he makes smart plays and takes extra bases? That’s really cool, and check this out! We have a computer that keeps track of that! We can prove that it’s true! That isn’t interesting? Why is it interesting when you subjectively believe he’s good at something, but not interesting when there’s a quantitative process the computation of which is publicly available that proves how true it is?
These are honest questions. Why are you not excited by that?
I wonder if Jeter will stay involved in Baseball? Maybe as a manager or asst coach. He’s always been a leader on the team and might be a good manager someday.
Honestly, 90% of the time, the computer model is going to tell the fan “the data says you’re wrong”.
Clutchy McSmartPlayer isn’t really clutch, isn’t smarter than anyone else, doesn’t run out more balls, doesn’t take more bases, and he’s below average on balls hit to his left side. You just think he’s awesome because you remember the good times.
I’m not excited by computers pointing out the deficiencies in my ability to remember things.
The intangibles are things you have to actually watch the games for. I admired his hustle and his leadership on that team. I don’t know if you can mathematically quantify hustle and leadership.
I hate the Yankees. Always have. Always rooted against them, especially in the playoffs. Every time my team was up the late innings and the Yankees needed to get a rally started, it always seemed like it was Jeter who got it started, the bastard!!
Announcer: Due up in the top of the top of the 9th, Jeter…
Me: FUCK!!
See this list. I don’t know what any of it means, but it seems pretty durned good.
14× All-Star (1998–2002, 2004, 2006–2012, 2014)
5× World Series champion (1996, 1998–2000, 2009)
World Series MVP (2000)
AL Rookie of the Year (1996)
5× Gold Glove Award (2004–2006, 2009–2010)
5× Silver Slugger Award (2006–2009, 2012)
2× AL Hank Aaron Award (2006, 2009)
Roberto Clemente Award (2009) (not so much a baseball award, more of a ‘Good Guy’ award)
New York Yankees captain (2003–2014)
Because the statistics don’t really measure what Jeter has meant to Yankee fans.
His closing statement of* “That’s sure better than most guys, but it’s not THAT much. It accounts to adding a win once every six or seven years.*” does not come close to matching what Jeter has meant.
Want another big disconnect, look into the respect for Joe DiMaggio by fans of the time and the writers and players of his time vs what his stats shows. Babe Ruth’s stats do speak for themselves but somewhere the stats lose the true value of players like Jeter & Joe D.
I’ve always wondered this too. I hope he stays in baseball but I suspect he won’t. He has often talked about being an owner.