I wouldn’t call Democrats good, but Republicans are definitely, unquestionably, objectively evil. Assuming one holds fascism to be evil, which I do.
According to Merriam-Webster:
evil - morally reprehensible: sinful, wicked.
fascism - a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader.
Nobody thinks evil isn’t bad, and nobody thinks fascism is a good political philosophy.
If we can’t move on from evil and fascism when discussing US politics, everyone has already lost.
We already lost. We endured the Trump years (and the Dubya years, for that matter). These regimes were bad; they hurt and killed people.
We endured them, but we didn’t crumble. Our loss was not forever. Our country and our people are still here, and we will fight on.
It isn’t my fault the Republicans decided to sprint to the right and are flirting with fascism. Or are you denying that Republicans are at a minimum flirting with fascism?
I disagree with this.
I absolutely agree with this.
Our government isn’t set up to easily allow fascism. If an evil politician could get rid of the House and the Senate, and change the constitution, I would be scared, and I would fight that the best I could.
For clarity, I’m not saying conservatives are evil. The current batch of Republicans are evil. And they are obviously so. Anybody supporting them is supporting evil.
But somebody who say wants to lower the tax rate on the rich isn’t evil. That’s something where two people can disagree. I don’t agree, and that’s ok. Republican have gone far far far to the right of where conservatism used to be. They stands things for which there can be no support. They’ve crossed the line, in my opinion.
Also, I used to vote for the Conservative Party here in Canada. But they’ve moved so far to the right I cannot support them, and they are nowhere near as far right as the Republicans. I disagree with the current Conservative Party, but I wouldn’t call them evil. I would call the Fascist Convoy that supports the Conservative Party evil, and I would say the Conservative Party voicing support for the Fascist Convoy ill-advised. If the Conservative Party continues to move to the right, then there will come a time where they too become evil. I hope that doesn’t happen.
Fascism in America will not be like fascism in 1930s Germany. It will have the veneer of “democracy”, but the finger will be on the scale so much so as to ensure that the right people win every time. Believing it cannot happen in the USA because the USA is a bastion of freedom and liberty is exactly how you get it happening. It can happen. It is happening. Look at what DeSantis is doing in Florida.
And Democrats have gone far to the left of where liberalism used to be.
They really haven’t. The Democrats have barely moved. And keep in mind this is relative to US politics. From a more global perspective, Democrats would barely classify as left at all.
Thanks for the link. I had no idea political ideology could be graphed so easily and so objectively.
Moderating:
Please be mindful of the thread you’re in. The discussion on fascism belongs here:
The thread you are in is to discuss if/whether DeSantis can or will will the GOP nomination or the general election in 2024.
We lost some battles. We lost some battles bad. But I think that good will win in the end.
Yeah!
Wait, whut?!
Some Democrats are pretty far to the left. (E.g., AOC. I still love her, tho.)
But Democrats in the aggregate too far to the left? I think not. I am a Democrat, and I think we are pretty darn centrist and reasonable on the whole. We’re downright conservative compared to parties on the left in many other countries. And that’s OK. I consider myself to be a “conservative progressive.”
Moving my post to the other thread based on the mod note.
I appreciate this. I think you tried to suggest up thread that there was another thread better suited for some of the comments, including mine, but I didn’t notice. I’ll try to be more aware in the future.
I like this term. I admit I really don’t know what it means, but I’m curious. Given current options, who would you vote for in 2024? Is there any political scenario (i.e. Dem candidate) where you would vote for DeSantis? Who would be a conservative-progressive candidate?
Thanks. To me, “conservative progressive” means both
Progressive
I share the same goals as most progressives: more justice for all, greater economic equality, elimination of homelessness… the list goes on. I believe in racial equality and sexual/gender equality, and I support LGBTQ+ rights.
Conservative
But I think we need to pursue these goals in a conservative manner. I am not an ideologue. There is no magic leftist system, such as socialism or communism, that “just works.” Everything is evolution. Personally, I am conservative in that I am not interested in micro-monitoring people’s speech and behavior for lapses from the Liberal Code (that doesn’t mean I tolerate egregious and/or intentional bad behavior). Since our country on both the left and right has achieved a broad consensus about the rights of POC, women, and LGBTQ+, I think we need to protect those rights very staunchly (at this point, doing otherwise is not conservative but the opposite).
I hope that makes sense!
I have argued for a similar political philosophy for 3 decades now. I used to call it “'Thinking Progressive Capitalism”
Nothing about private property, a basically capitalist economic system, and fiscally sound government is antithetical to equal rights and equal opportunities for folks beyond just white male Protestants.
Conservatism (whether large-C or small-c) is about assuming nothing can be improved, that we live in the best of all worlds now. IOW that society and government is already optimal. In fact in many cases the conservative going in assumption is that the last WAG 30 years have made things worse, and so the term “conservatism” stands most accurately for the proposition of returning to the era of the spokesman’s childhood or before. Irrespective of the fact the person making that judgment was a child then who had no comprehension of what that society really was like to the then-contemporary adults. Childish wants produce a childish governing agenda.
Progress. We expect it in science, tech, economics (at least insofar as wealth / GDP / etc.), and even in biological evolution. Why do we insist on its absence in our social and political arrangements? The answer is simple: only the severely pessimistic and unimaginative insist on that. And those who prosper on the back of that unimaginative army they can easily lead to folly.
I think my political beliefs are in line with both of you. That all makes perfect sense to me.
I went from conservative to moderate to liberal but I’m measured about it. I am on the left undoubtedly at this point but I don’t think I’m too far from the center, and I’m certainly not a revolutionary.