DeSantis can't win the GOP nomination or the general election in 2024 {How Trump plays into this is allowed}

Good stuff!

I think we need to evolve toward a better economic system, the most important difference with our current debt-based system.

I call “capitalism” the “legacy economic system,” or LES. To me, contrasting “capitalism” with something like communism leads to the bad mental habit of thinking that capitalism is a designed and optimized system–which it definitely is not. Nevertheless, precisely because it is an evolved system means that there is a lot in it that works for humans.

Freedom of markets (with reasonable regulation) and freedom of personal endeavor are very important. Personal property makes intuitive sense to humans (within reason: “my house, my car”–yes; “my offshore tax shelter, my shares in a shell corporation”–not so much).

The current GOP is not even “conservative”; it is a radical authoritarian cult. But even before that, back in the Reagan through Dubya years, there was not a vision for the future (at least not in terms of domestic policy).

Exactly. Technology and society are constantly changing. Government needs to keep up.

But…but…the Constitution as a sacred and inviolate object! Original intent of the framers! :wink:

Thanks!

And I think that sometimes we need to be leftist radicals when that is truly necessary. And when we see the Cultural Revolution bullshit that Bill Mahr pointed out recently, we need to be conservative and oppose that:

So I see myself as being on the Left, but that’s because the Left wants things that are good for humanity that we still need to get done. If all that were done, then I guess I would just call myself a centrist: keep what we have and make such improvements that are necessary.

I think the term you’re looking for is an enlightened centrist.

Agreed. It seems, to me, like the goal of the MAGA movement is to take the U.S. back to somewhere in the late '50s or early '60s: pre-Civil Rights Act, pre-feminist movement, pre-sexual liberation, when the “norm” was being a white heterosexual Christian, and anyone who wasn’t that “knew their place” as second-class citizens.

A lot in the Constitution is obsolete and it’s so difficult to change that I don’t know what will happen eventually. If evolution becomes impossible, the death of the system (e.g., Rome) or revolution (many examples) remain the only options.

I’m not sure what our current vector is. So much change is needed right now, yet we have mad and irrational opposition to all good change in the form of the GOP.

Good summation.

Government is nice and all, but we must accept that society is far more than mere government. And society itself is not merely a Force of Nature that proceeds willy-nilly into the future due to inscrutable and unalterable pressures. Human nature in its raw unmanaged form may be eternal and unalterable. Human behavior and human learning and education are anything but.

Society goes where it is led. It can be led by the forces of nihilism, the forces of unbridled greed, the forces of commercial conformity. Or the forces of collective betterment while including individual self-interest to the degree it isn’t invidious self-interest.

The conservative mindset is that feral humans are the best humans. I think 4,000 years of civilization conclusively puts the lie to that nonsense.

Quoting myself for context …

In the cited post justified the “Capitalism” part and the “Progressive” part. I neglected to justify the “Thinking” part.

I’d summarize that as the difference between greed and enlightened self-interest. And the difference between know-nothingism and knowledgeable careful policy analysis. And between “feeling” and “thinking”.

Ultimately my Thinking Progressive Capitalism is a very elite mindset. But it’s an elite comprised of knowledgeable thinkers of a kindly mindset, not an elite of wealthy rent-seeking parasites nor of psychopathic political power-hounds.

There are no barriers to entry to this elite. Anyone can join except the truly mentally disabled. All you have to do is learn, think, and act equitably towards all. It’s utterly irreligious, but oddly enough has a lot in common with what various prophets of various religions have been going on about for millennia now.

Well said!

Plus they’re going to want a place with no snow – big parks open only seven or eight months a year have a poor track record of survival. California is out with Disneyland the original already there. Texas? Georgia? New Mexico? Hawaii, maybe but no families will be taking a road trip there.

So I think that makes me a progressive conservative. I agree with both of your definitions, with these additions: It’s import to me that our government spends less money. I also think states should have jurisdiction on social legislation (of course, to a point).

I like this term, and consider myself one. I’m pretty sure not everyone would agree with that.

I’d certainly agree that is an accurate description.

Deleted.

Beep.

Bad news for DeSantis it seems. Unless they are thinking he wouldn’t be a good VP for Trump but would still be a presidential candidate.

I expect him to not only get the nomination but to win the presidency. Of course, I said that about Hillary Clinton too, but I may be right this time, for once. No one else other than maybe Biden has a ghost of a chance to win the presidency, and just look at the nuts over on the Republican side, Trump included.

I hadn’t thought of her for the veep spot before but crazy Kari is perfect for Donald, especially should he win. Come the '28 election, after he’s decided that he’s entitled to a third term, she won’t be impeding him with any of that pesky constitution bullshit.

True. Pence was selected to give TFG a thin veneer of responsibility and a nod to traditional Republicans, but he got in the way when it mattered. He wont make that mistake again.