So all of the SEC teams voted Bama #2. Big surprise.
Most of the Big 12 teams voted OSU #2. Big surprise.
Pinkel (Mizzou) voted Bama #2 and OSU #4. Big surprise.
Saban voted his team #2 and OSU #4. Another big surprise.
If this isn’t proof that the current BCS formula needs to be reworked, then I don’t know what is.
Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it? There are strong arguments to be made either way, and it came out really, really close. All these “This is a travesty!” posts are incredibly over the top. It’s not a travesty. Alabama made its case. Oklahoma State made its case. The voters were ever-so-slightly more swayed by Alabama’s case. If Oklahoma State had gotten in, it wouldn’t have been a travesty, either (even though I have little doubt that lots of SEC homers would have claimed otherwise).
True enough.
But IMO, at the top of the rankings, quality losses mean a lot more to me (and apparently voters). And it is perfectly valid way to evaluate the difference between two top teams.
There is not a doubt in my mind that Bama would be 12-0 against the Okie States schedule.
There is a doubt in my mind the Okie State would have be 11-1 against the Bama schedule.
That said, I would have voted for Okie State #3. I think they are a better team than Stanford (and Oregon). Arkansas? not sure. But Arkansas had two losses.
No coach voted Alabama lower than #3. Several coaches (and not just Saban) voted OSU lower than #3.
And yes, of course the BCS needs to be reworked. We’ve known that for years.
It’s certainly something that should be taken into account. I’m not sure that a series of significantly better wins can be outweighed by one significantly worse loss, but they should both be considered. I agree it’s not a travesty either way.
Just for curiosity’s sake, and not important enough for me to go look it up myself, does anybody have a thumbnail sketch of how the FCS National Champ is determined?
Can a simple flowchart be shown?
Just realized there was more than one page on the Harris Poll results.
Craig Morton (former NFL QB from California, born in Michigan) voted Okie St #5
Doug Soul (Arena Football Coach, tOSU alum) voted OkSt #4.
Harvey Schiller (Business man) voted OkSt #4.
Terry Shea ( mainly a West Coast football resume) voted OkSt #4
Fred Stabley (not sure who he is) voted OkSt #4
Jeff Van Note (NFLer, UKentucky) voted OkSt #5 (stanford and oregon)
Bob Wagner (UHawaii former Head Coach) voted Ok St #6 (Boise, Stanford and Oregon)
George Wine (no idea) voted Ok St #6 (Houston??, Stanford and Oregon)
Rick Wright (New Mexico columnist??) voted Okie State #5 (Stanford and Oregon)
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And there were two Harris voters who voted Bama as low as #4
Terry Husak (former NFLer, Stanford Alum, and Stanford radio announcer)
Jim Walden former head coach at Wash St U and Iowa State.
Chris Petersen of Boise admits he voted his team fifth (they finished sixth in the coaches poll and seventh in the BCS) and voted Michigan 15 (they finished 12th/13th) and TCU 18 (15th/18th) to improve BSU’s chances. I admit it looks like Boise State got jobbed and it’s easy for him to do the “wrong” thing Sunday and then blame systemic issues on Monday, but is this the only way to handle this issue?
Except when Utah, TCU, Boise State etc. go undefeated. Then its about who you beat. I think that that is what has people so pissed about this, not the rematch or all SEC or Okie St got screwed but that for this year the subjective criteria seems to have changed. Other than losing to a better team, please list any OBJECTIVE criteria where Alabama beats Okie St.
Apples and Oranges
And the debate between Bama and OkSt is between one loss teams, and NOT a one loss team from an AQ conference vs an undefeated team from WAC or Mountain West.
And yet one of one-loss teams (Bama/OkSt) already lost to LSU. Why do they get a do-over? If Bama wins On a neutral field January 9, why should that count for more than the game they lost at home on November 5?
It’s hard for me to admit, but Alabama probably is the second-best team in the nation. Problem is, though, they’ve already proven that they can lose to the number 1 team. You can call Okie State’s loss ‘worse,’ but double overtime on the road should counterbalance a loss at home somewhat, even if it was in single overtime to the top team.
Funny, isn’t it? They cooked up the BCS system to match the top two teams and find a true champion, instead of all the voting and poll shenanigans in the past. Now we have what? Voting and poll shenanigans determining who’s in the BCS title game. Bring on the Plus One!
Just like basketball, only with 16 teams. Conference champions receive automatic bids to the playoff and the rest are at-large committee invitations. However, there are some conferences which refuse to participate, like the Ivy League.
So are you saying that there should never be a rematch?
Why would any team play another team in the regular season that could be in BCS game?
Rematches happen all the time in other sports.
Superbowl teams often play each other during the regular season. (approximately 25% of the years is a rematch)
with inter-league play, baseball teams can have a rematch from the regular season.
NBA basketball, yep.
If there were true “shenanigans”, Saban would have voted OkState #20. And Big XII teams would have done the same to OkState.
And a few coaches cannot skew the voting too much in either the Coaches or the Harris Poll.
Bama got a total 122 2nd place votes in the Harris and Coaches Polls
OkSt got a total 52 2nd place votes in the Harris and Coaches polls
Bama got a total 17 3rd place votes in the Harris and Coaches Polls
OkSt got a total 100 3rd place votes in the Harris and Coaches polls
No one voted either team worse than 6th in the polls, out of 174 votes! Only two voted either team as low as 6th.
Admittedly i don’t see how anyone voted OkSt #6, but I could see some point to vote them 4th, and possibly 5th.
IMO, there are no shenanigans.
Coaches Poll 33.33% of formula, 59 voters. Each vote is 0.564% of the total BCS Formula.
Harris Poll, 33.33% of formula, 112 voters. Each vote is 0.297% of the total BCS Formula.
It is difficult for a block of 10 votes, let alone a single vote to impact the formula.
What the poll contraversy does is question this whole idea that Alabama is “clearly” number 2. Even if you ignore the rematch or Alabama not winning (or even playing in) their conference championship, the BCS apologists assume that Alabama is clearly the second-best school. 17 voters in the Harris poll had Oklahoma State 2nd so what did they see that the 'Bama voters didn’t. Look at Boise State. Ranked between 4th and 13th so they are CLEARLY the _______th best team in the nation.
The history of the BCS has been how pollsters get the final results to meet their subjective impressions. In that respect in most years it is no better than what we had before. I’ve asked before, give me OBJECTIVE reasons 'Bama is better than OK State and then reverse it and give me OBJECTIVE reasons OK State is better than Bama. Does this match the subjective assessment that Bama is a better team? Hint: NO!!! (How do you know Bama wouldn’t lose to the same team OKSt did given the same circumstances? You can’t!)
Then which assessment is correct, the objective or subjective?
Saint Cad, are you questioning the system because Alabama was not a unanimous #2 in the polls?
FWIW, I don’t think anyone thinks that Bama is a clear #2. I think most everyone acknowledges that both OkSt and Bama have strong arguments for and against each other.
when I go out to lunch with four co-workers, I can’t get a unanimous opinion on where to eat. Every one has their biases.
But it clear to me that most people think that Bama is better team that Okie St.
And FTR, if OkSU had beat ISU, I still think Bama is the better team, HOWEVER, my vote would have gone to OkSU.
IMO, teams that are in contention for a Nat’l Championship in football do not lose to 6-6 teams like ISU, especially in mid to late November.
I’ve said this in another thread but believe it bears repeating. Alabama lost to LSU on November 5th while OSU lost to ISU on November 18th. If these dates were reversed, I believe that OSU would be playing in the Nat’l Championship Game.
The biggest factors in determining which 1-loss teams make it into the game are 1) the timing of the loss and 2) their rankings prior to the season, before they’ve even played a single game.
The BCS is bogus. It will take some time to fix. But to me, one quick fix is to abolish all rankings until half the season is over. Alabama made it in because they were given the #1 ranking before even playing a single game.
No I’m questioning the system because all of the arguments I’ve heard for Bama make a tacit assumption that they are unquestionably #2 in the nation. Therefore (with rare exception) this is like every other season involving the BCS.
How does the first rankings in Mid-to-Late October rectify:
After Bama lost to LSU, OkSt would have been ranked ahead of Bama (same as this year) and after OkSt lost to ISU, Bama would have been ranked ahead of ISU.
Auburn was ranked outside the top 20 in last years preseason. and somehow, they worked themselves into the top 2. How? By winning every game.