I really think this is way outside the scope of this discussion. If you want to have this debate, open another thread, please.
I think the problem is there are at least three separate aspects to this, and this thread muddles them too much to find common ground:
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Standard Republican v Democrat issues. Plenty of traditional common ground to find there, as noted in your link.
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New Trumpist policies. Also some common ground (“The H1B system needs reform” or “TPP was a bad deal”).
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Trumpist political tactics. Here, you’re screwed. The Trump camp has purposefully opted for antagonism and base-rousing outrage, divisive dialog, and demagoguery. Regardless what you think of (1) and (2), the supporters will say “right on, piss of the libs, all’s fair in politics” and the detractors will say “this is fundamentally damaging to American principles and institutions.” No detente to be had here at all.
If you look at some of the issue specific threads on the boards focusing on 1 and 2 (e.g. gun rights, ACA) I think you’ll see a lot more common ground being found, or at least factual and non-denigrating debate (albeit, in the current atmosphere, plenty of 3 is leaking everywhere). I think a general thread like this is doomed.
This isn’t how humans work. If humans want to reproduce, it’s not particularly hard to find a way, regardless of their sexual orientation. This is even more obviously true in the present with modern technology, but it was also true in the past.
It’s precisely #3 that I’m trying to address here. My thinking was that I could get the #3’s to step back from the ledge and return to a more reasonable position of disagreement without the vitriol. I thought it would be possible to do by getting everyone to see that Trump is the reactive agent/catalyst in the solution.
I’m starting to think you’re right. I’m probably wasting my time.
How’s that working out?
On this board it is certainly a waste of everyone’s time. Why?
Because there is nothing that anyone can say that will convince you or drad dog or a whole lot of other posters that people voted for Trump for reasonable reasons.
My parents voted for Trump. They are honest, well-educated, non-religious*, non-racist, and have given lots of time and money to various causes throughout the years. They don’t give a fuck who you sleep with or marry, what color your skin is or where you came from.
With Trump vs. Clinton it was, basically, a binary choice. Yeah, you can vote third party but it is basically punting on the presidency, which is what I did. So, for them, it came down to who they though would hurt the country least. They don’t particularly like Trump. They certainly don’t like his rhetoric. Policy wise, they kinda sorta like some of his economic stuff.
Yet since they voted for Trump everyone on the 'Dope is going to instantly assume that they are racists and bigots, that they are uneducated (Dad has a PhD in Math and a B.S. in Physics and was a world leading research scientist for his career. Mom has a M.S. in English, Summa Cum Laude, was a teacher and then worked at a national lab) and filled with hate.
Guess what, they aren’t.
My best friend is a gay Hispanic male, second generation. He voted for Trump. He doesn’t like Trump much either. He really disliked Hillary, thought she didn’t give a damned about gay rights except to try and win some votes. He told me Clintons flipping around on gay marriage, the email server (he is a networking guy and understands how incredibly stupid her setup was) and government spending were his main issues, so he held his nose and hoped Trump would be better. I imagine that right about now a bunch of people are going ‘But, but but TRUMP said he’d overturn the gay discrimination executive orders during the election!!!’. We talked about that and my friend said, basically, that he didn’t think Trump gave a damned about the issues and wouldn’t change anything.
It seems very few on the 'Dope want to understand why people voted for Trump, they seem to be happy in their outrage, so nothing will change.
Slee
*Every other year or so Mom will get really religious and insist on saying grace before Christmas dinner.
Not for me to say.
Actually, you made a valid argument earlier:
So it hasn’t been a complete waste of time, in that respect.
No conservative has ever said that sexual orientation is an “organic brain disease”, that’s an invention of your own mind. Please quote any prominent conservative who has said that. Oh wait, you won’t be able to, because no conservative Republican believes that.:p:cool:
I know you’re on spring break and probably drinking, but please try reading for context and comprehension before posting.
This post assumes that all Trump supporters and defenders of him and his representatives are automatically bigots. Keep on going with this liberal-leftist “tolerant” mindset, bro. It’ll give us increased Republican Senate and House majorities in 2018, and a re-elected President Trump in 2020. I don’t know why you brain donors think you’ll ever be able to insult people into changing their opinions, doesn’t work that way.
Show me where I said “all Trump supporters, etc…” are bigots.
You said that people who insist on defending Trump and his representatives should find another thread, as “[t]here can be no détente among those of us who oppose bigotry and those who actively or silently support it… So, to those who would insist on defending Trump and his representatives, I suggest you find another thread to do so.”
So, you were saying by supporting Trump that automatically makes us bigotry-supporters. :(:(:(:(
If you can know why they voted, you must know if those reasons are being served right now.
To the extent anyone wants to support Trump’s bigoted policies, they may do so in other threads. Yes.
I said I think they knew why they voted for Trump. I didn’t say I knew why they did.
So you’re generalizing about us in assuming we’d generalize about them?
For what it’s worth, I can picture some non-racist reasons to vote Trump:
- The voter is single-issue on abortion and would vote for the Republican no matter who it is.
- The voter is single-issue on guns and would vote for the Republican no matter who it is.
- The voter is single-issue on taxes and would vote for the Republican no matter who it is.
I am emboldened to respond.
I have no bias against “reasonable reasons” although I’m not sure this is a thing.
I am pointing out that donald is incoherent in his statements and has been all along. when he has not been lying, and vice versa. His spokespeople have also perfected this “skill.”
If I point this out that doesn’t make me a rage-aholic. It certainly doesn’t mean I don’t want to know why he got elected.
But if you are saying that his voters are more coherent than donnie is, you will have to explain how that could be to me. Sounds like wishful thinking, and loyalty to family. I got trump voters in the family too.
A thread about trump voters and others “getting along” and working it out, ignores that elephant in the room, and demands that we all guess at what donald is saying or meaning when he speaks or acts, as if he is some kind of oracle or automaton. That even though donald is lying, and incoherent, and his explainers are lying and incoherent, his voters are totally independent from this fact. I think this is beneath the dignity of an intelligent American frankly.
In spite of this many people have asked this here and there hasn’t been a lot of content. Even the people pushing back have not taken the challenge. It’s all very watery. Unless someone comes in and does the thing it will be considered impossible. It isn’t possible just because it “must be.” People are not rational just because they “must be” or they are family.
You can’t be sure of something that you don’t know the identity of.
Once more with feeling, and different emphasis:
I said I think they knew why they voted for Trump.
Just like I think you know why you voted the way you did.