dial-up connection question

What causes “carrier drop?”

I’m not talking about “time-outs” where your isp says “You’ve been idle too long, your wasting bandwidth, bye-bye!”

My call waiting is disabled when I am online. That’s not it either.

I am talking about: You’re busy downloading, surfing, posting, chatting or whatever, and suddenly the dial-up networking server you’re connected to, decides to take a dump on you, and flush you down the toilet for no known reason. Arrrgh! This often happens at the worst possible times. :mad:

So, why does this happen? What is happening at the other end of the line?

Line noise or other line faults such as earth leakage, would be a prime culprit on an analogue line, if it’s a DSL connection or similar, I suspect that there are equivalent glitches.

Otherwise, could be any number of reliability problems (hardware or software) with your ISP; do you have more than one ISP? - if so, does the problem manifest more with one than the other?

[ul]
[li]I have only one ISP, that being Juno.[/li][li]dial-up analog connection[/li][li]56k modem[/li][li]three separate local access numbers[/li][li]I get “dumped” equally regardless of which access number I use.[/li][/ul]

Everything on my end checks out fine.
Whatever the problem it’s likely coming from the isp end.

My ISP has a four hour disconnect policy - if you’ve been online for four hours, you’re automatically disconnected. Any chance your ISP has a similar policy?

Is there any chance you live near farmlands? Electric fences that haven’t been earthed properly can cause this.

Have you tried dialing up another ISP to see if it happens? It’s worth a shot. I would try another ISP before declaring Juno at fault. You never know.

If your ISP’s lines get congested, they may bump you and others offline to give other people a chance to log on.

Do you have an internal or external modem? Internal modems are notoriously unreliable (here in Australia anyway) and tend to live short lives. My Dad’s internal modem lasted 12 months, my friend has to replace hers after less than 2 years (she keeps getting thrown offline) and when Mr Cazzle worked in tech support, a significant percentage of all reported problems were caused by faulty internal modems.

My ISP has no time limit disconnect policy under the paid policy, which we are.

I live in a large residential area. Not much farm stuff in the immediate vicinity. Certainly no electric fences.

Yes I have an internal modem.

I used to get dropped just as often with AOL. Same pc, same modem.

The phone company put a new underground line in for my entire neighborhood, about two years ago.

I can doublecheck my modem, but I don’t feel it is the modem. I won’t rule it out entirely, either.

I had the exact same problem. Get on line and for no apparent reason, I’d lose my connection. No particular amount of time either. One time I’d be online for an hour. Next time I’d lose my connection after 5 minutes. I talked to my ISP and they told me that it wasn’t in their equipment because nobody else was having the same problem. I called the phone company and they checked the lines and also told me that it was not the lines. (At least outside the house). So, I started to check everything inside from the phone jack on the wall to the computer. The phone line went through a splitter and one side went to a caller id box, then a phone. The other line went to the surge protector, then the computer and finally to the other phone. And since the phone jack is so far from the computer, I have two phone cords hooked together with a connector.

So far, I have taken out the splitter, the Caller id box and the second phone. It has cut my “connection losses” down considerably. I still have some other things to do, such as see if I can find a phone cord that is long enough to reach without going through a connector. But for the most part, I think I have it figured out.

How many doodads does your line go through before it gets to the computer?

Hmmmm. Interesting.

Between the point where the main line enters the house, and my pc, there are only two “doodads.” A splitter, and a surge protector. The surge protector is fairly new, so I doubt it’s that.

It could be the splitter. That’s kind of old.

I replaced the indoor main line, myself, about a year ago.

In light of your discoveries: The only other thing I think may be the culprit is the outdoor line between the house, and the phone company junction box in the alley. There are two trees in the back there. The line runs underground. The tree roots may be fatiguing the line. I dunno. May be worth looking into.

I’ll try tinkering with the splitter first.

Hiya

I used to work tech support at an ISP here in Australia. In addition to the excellent advice that has been offered above, I’d like to add a few things:

Anything in between the line coming in to your house and your modem is a potential problem. I have seen some thoroughly weird stuff like: there’s an answering machine and a telephone and the modem daisy chained together. Remove the phone from the loop, and the problem goes away. Remove the answering machine from the loop and the problem comes back. So, what, the phone causes some kinda problem, and there is a problem with the bare line, but the answering machine “fixes” the problem? Dunno, but it worked with the phone out of the loop.

You “splitter” may cause problems, especially if it’s active (ie, battery or mains powered). If it’s literally just a Y-junction, it should not cause a problem, but taking it out of the line to experiment would be useful in gathering data.

Secondly, some phones (the standard issue from here from the teleco) draw current from the line at irregular intervals to recharge their small internal batteries (that are used to store the memory phone numbers). This can cause a dropout.

Thirdly, renegotiating. You don’t say what speed you are connecting at, but anything faster than 33.6k is asking for trouble, really, unless you are plain lucky (line age and exchange distance seems to be the main thing here). In the handshake process (the noisy bit you hear when you connect), the modem at your end, and the ISP’s end negotiate a speed they can communicate at. It goes something like this:

hi, I am user <name>, can I come in?
sure, what's you password?
er, <password>?
excellent, thanks, let's try 14k4...
fine for me, let's try 26k5...
hmm, good, what about 33k6?
yes, what about 42k5?
excellent, what how's about 52k6?
woah, little shaky, maybe 42k5 is safer?
yes, lets agree on 42k5
ok, thanks, seeya
[connection established]

Obviously pretty basic, and omits a lot of other stuff, but the point is, they start a set speed (depends on your modem init strings and the ISP’s modems), and crank it up til they hit errors, back it off a click, and call that it - for now.

Later on in the session, the client or the server might detect the line quality degrading (or improving) for whatever reason, stop the normal data transfer, and renegotiate up or down. Sometimes they are FAR to aggressive in this process, and decide that just cos they can get a 56k connection for two seconds that it’ll be fine for the next few hours. Of course, that kinda speed cannot last (too many errors), so the modems give up and disconnect.

Luckily, there are a few things you can do about this. The best thing is to upgrade your modem’s firmware. If it’s a cheapie internal (under $50US), it’s prolly a WinModem, which is basically a software modem - no processing power on the card, it relies pretty much entirely on the firmware (software stored on a chip on the modem), and the main CPU on your machine. That’s not bad, in a way, cos they are damn cheap, and most machines these days have processing power to burn… but it can mean that you have to frig around with firmware updates alla time.

There is an excellent site that has a lot of info and firmware links to most manufacturers (most WinModems are based on one of three main chipsets, and re-branded under dozens of names), and has troubleshooting info galore. Like so many sites that have a lot of useful content, it’s design is appalling, but it’s THE best reference for this kinda info:

http://808hi.com/

If you don’t have a WinModem, that site is still useful. Updating your drivers (usually available from your manufacturer’s website) never hurts. Bleeding edge new drivers with special features are best avoided. Check their docs, there might be a driver one notch down that has some bugs but works pretty well.

Keep in mind that if you spent a little more on a modem, you don’t have it spend this time messing about it with it all. Brand name external modems are pretty good, you tend to get what you pay for. USB modems are very stable these days, as well (some are cheapie WinModems, tho, so beware).
Another thing to ask your ISp about is alternate dialup numbers. Modems at the ISP end come in big boxes of 20, 40, 60 or more (PortMaster brand come to mind). These are a godsend for ISP’s (they used to have to have hundreds of external modems on shelves!), but there are some problems - cheap WinModems don’t work so well with them.

Some more responsible ISP’s have several dialup numbers that go to different hardware on their end. You might find that your modem works better with different ISP hardware. Ask tech support. If the drone on the other end of the phone knows little, as to speak to a supervisor.
Another thing worth trying is borrowing a friends access info for a different ISP, and see if you have the same problem. This will not tell you much if you don’t know what hardware the ISP is using on the other end, tho, and you did say you used to be with AOL, and had the same trouble.

The converse of this, is trying YOUR account on someone else’s machine, preferably in a different neighborhood, to get more valid data. Setting up a dial up connection on someone else’s machine is an easy process, takes under five minutes, and will give you some very useful data. If you try this, you’ll need the dialup number, your username and password, and maybe the ISP’s DNS settings (unlikely, these days, most are auto). Go to My Computer, Dial Up Networking, right click on the entry you are using, and click on all the tabs, and jot down the info. Don’t forget the stuff under the “advanced” buttons.
Yet another thing to try is to borrow a friends’ (preferably external, serial) modem, and try it, see what you get. There is no problem having multiple modems connected in Win9x (which I presume you are using?) - Control Panel, modems Add modem. WinXP and Me come with a stack of drivers (and the default ones usually work fine), but it never hurts to get the driver disk that came with the modem and install that as well, just to be sure.

Lastly, and I hate to bring this up, cos I am a chronic DIY’er myself, your own work at home with the line extension. Small things like incorrect cable specs (smaller or large sq mm cable would affect resistance, and could affect data transfer, unlikely but possible), incorrect or sloppy termination of wires into connectors could result in intermittent results. No offence, but it’s a possibility.

All in all, I’d say it’s most likely a combo of too-aggressive re-negotiations in line speed and substandard line quality in your area. Firmware updates can make all the difference, so I’d make this your first port of call.

Whew, I thought I had forgotten all this! Been a few years. I ran it by a guy in the biz still and he says it’s all accurate, so I hope it helps. Let me know if you have any specific queries.

Oh, and I am happy to be corrected about any factual errors I may have made. :slight_smile:

abby

If your line has call waiting, then anybody who calls when you are online bumps you off.

It can be the OS. If you use Windows, it is highly likely that it’s Window foobaring on you.

After a year of using dial up I ordered a 2nd phone line for the house to be dedicated for computer/fax use.

The telco installed the line and I tried to connect up to my ISP. After about 5 minutes I got dropped. Connect again, 10 minutes, dropped. It was only a rare case where I could be on line for more then 30-40 minutes at a time.

I ran a phone line from the modem to the drop box outside and plugged it right into it (they have the same RJ-11 jack on them line your wall jack). This helped the problem a little, but it still wasn’t as good as my “voice” line.

I called telco out and they replaced the line from the drop box to the wall outlet. It didn’t help much. They came out again and replaced the line from the pole to the drop box. Still not better.

On the 3rd service call they decided to change out the cable pair from the main telco switch downtown to the pole outside my house. this fixed the problem.

The entire issue took a bit over one month to resolve.

My guess with your problem… Telco.

Try running a phone line from your modem to the drop box. This will rule out your home wiring, splitters, etc.

Also, if you are running a WinModem, it could be that. I’ve found even the best WinModem is flighty from time to time.

I didn’t realize this could get so complicated. Especially light of what abby said and linked to. egads. I checked out that site. I’m afraid I’m not technically adept enough to understand even a quarter of everything there, let alone try to DO what it says.

Thanks are still due to abby and the rest of you. So, thank you. I’ll try to make sense of whatever I can.

This evening I bought a modular phone plug crimping tool.

I installed new individual main line, directly from the teleco indoor main junction terminal, to the internal modem jack. No hops, no doodads, not anything between the outside main line terminal and the pc.

I have noticed a significant improvement in connection speed. I verified this with an internet speedometer.

I regularly test my connection speed, and after reconfiguring the hardline, I reached 38.16 kbps !!! :smiley:

I never had that high of a connection rate before. I usually used to get only 28 to 30 kbps. :rolleyes:

I haven’t had it installed long enough, yet, to see if there’s any less “carrier-drop” occurring, though.

Now, I am getting very curious as to how things might improve, further, if I call the telco to have my outdoor main line replaced. I know it must to be fatigued and degraded, as it it has never been replaced, to my knowledge. I do know for a fact the outside line runs directly under the dead center of the trunks of the two huge maples in the back yard. That can’t be good. :eek:

40.96 kbps now! whoohoo! it just keeps getting better. :smiley:

Another solution, although it may not be exactly what you have in mind, might be a cable modem. I can’t say enough good things about mine. I just tested out at the site you linked to at 2.855 Mbps. Another added benefit is that I never have to dialup anymore, and I lose service only on extremely rare occasions. It’s also pretty cheap if you already have cable installed. Good deal with the dialup though, I don’t think I ever got mine running that smoothly when I used it. Cheers!

      • Marginally related: why do downloads always start out fast, then slow down? I get this at home, as well on the college’s network (with its own net server). The college’s can roll at 300K/sec, but rarely maintains that speed except if you’re downloading stuff from Microsoft or Netscape. Seems like everything else starts out relatively fast, and then slows evenly throughout the download time. -I cannot ever recall having a download start out slow, and then speed up. What’s up wit dat? - DougC

Here is a related question. (I think).

Why is it that if I run my mouse pointer over the computer screens down by the clock that the speed says “50666 bps”, but I ran that test from McAfee linked above and it says 32.96 Kbps? I assume that 50666 bps would be the same as 50.66 Kbps.

This might answer you questions, cheezit.

http://www.modemmax.com/how.shtml

Read the FAQ also.

I have this installed and it does work!