If your causality is correct, which I frankly doubt (Libya had already been moving towards a more moderate relationship with the US before 9/11), that’s not an argument in support of civilian protest, that’s an argument in support of military intervention, which I have already conceded is the only really effective counter to despotic governments.
And this is why it is more important to talk about abuses committed by Americans than by Baathists. Because everyone already understands how terrible the acts committed by the Baathists were, but some people are laboring under the impression that the acts committed by Americans are nothing worse than a Mel Brooks comedy routine. That’s what needs to be talked about, because that’s the only atrocity here that can possibly be resolved by talking.
Horseshit back at you. Turds like you CHOSE to twist his words into something he didn’t mean in order to make a partisan point. That, for the record, is LYING. No matter how clear he had made his statement LIARS like YOU would have twisted his words to suit your own sick, perverted beliefs. “People” like you have RUINED this country’s reputation, either through your actions or through the your support for those actions, and I DEMAND that you recognize that you are LOUSY, STINKING LIARS WHO ARE BOUND AND DETERMINED TO DESTROY THE UNITED STATES and I DEMAND you apologize for it AND take actions to end the slide you have started. Anything less will prove that you are the scum I say you are.
It has not eluded him. He has chosen to ignore the truth, making him a liar. I’ve had about enough of people who lie because the truth does not match their worldviews.
Luc, being from Minnesota I was taught at my mother’s knee to ALWAYS hold it in, but her mother had a saying that is appropriate here, though it was really about farting: “It’s better to do it and bear the shame than hold it in and bear the pain.”
Well if you look at your question, there is obviously more than one answer. The United States has certainly had these things happen under its watch. And I really don’t have a problem with stress positions or the heat. Individuals who use cigarettes or beat prisoners should be, and have been punished. But I don’t think that the things you cited are honest comparisons to the regimes you mentioned. Neither does the rest of America…or most of it.
This story from Rasmussen shows how 70% think the prisoners are treated BETTER than they deserve or about right. 14% think the treatment of Gitmo prisoners is comparable to the Nazi’s. Only 30% of DEMOCRATS think the prisoners are being treated unfairly.
See most of America realizes we are at war. Yeah yeah we can debate the merits of the war in another thread. But most of us realize that these people are more than likely Very Bad People who would do harm Americans abroad and in the USA if they were given a chance. So we look at their captivity and decide it may be in fact a Good Thing. If these people had wanted to be protected by the Geneva Conventions, then they should have entered the battlefield under conditions that would have availed themselves of the Geneva Conventions protection. But as they are ununiformed combatants, they surrendered that right. They should count themselves lucky to be alive, as I am sure that they could have been killed very easily crawling out of wahtever shithole they were defending. That being said, I think that allegations of abuse at Gitmo should be looked into. and I believe they ARE being looked into. I simply think that comparisons to NAzi’s are unwarranted, and so does most of the rest of America.
And, of course, if most of America doesn’t have a problem with what’s going on in Gitmo, then obviously, there’s nothing wrong with what’s going on in Gitmo.
I’m not the one who is trying to make a partisan point, you so-called “scum” calling authority figure of the SDMB. Go back and re-read my two posts…I’m disgusted with both sides of the aisle, including the usual assortment of harpies here.
So…NO EXCUSE FOR YOU! [/soup nazi]
And keep your slanderous drivel for someone who really deserves it…right now, Bush and Durbin come to mind…they are the ones doing the twisting for partisan purposes, not me.
It doesn’t mean anything other than what it says. Tens of thousands of people once believed it was true that the sun went around the earth. Didn’t make it true.
Oh yeah? Since when have I been an “authority figure,” HUH? Call ME names, will ya…
Then I fucking APOLOGIZE, asshole! Oh, I forgot to top it off with some tears. [Durbin] Boo-hoo! I’m such a sorry excuse for a human being! [/Durbin] (big and bigger )
Ah- the confusion came about because when I saw you had quoted my previous post, I didn’t notice you had amended it to reflect that the same argument could have been used by anti-abolitionists.
I just read your reply.
Again I think your argument here is technically accurate but intellectually dishonest. While a majority ( I assume) of people thought slavery was ok at some point, we now know that it was never ok and we were right to abandone the practice. The majority was wrong.
But I could similarly say that a majority of Americans considered the attack on Pearl Harbor an act of war, and the majority would be right. And i think most people would still agree with that. The majority was right.
Each matter has to stand on its own merits. Wether the majority agrees is not necessarily a marked of moral clarity. In the case of the treatment of the Gitmees, I think the majority has it right this time.
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