Did Colorado just buy themselves a cup?

In My Humble Opinion
1

In case you haven’t heard, the Colorado Avalanche have signed free agents Paul Kariya and Teemu Selane. A lot of the buzz about this I’m hearing is that the cup is as good as theirs.

I disagree. True, their top two lines are probably better than the starting line on any other team in the league, but there defense, while good, is not spectacular. And of course, they no longer have Patrick Roy to bail them out when things break down.

Also, to get to the cup, they may have to go through my Red Wings, who, with their aquisition of Derien Hatcher today, have the best defensive corps in the league AND (fingers crossed) Dominick Hasek. If only we weren’t losing Sergei.

So, what do you think of today’s big moves?

2

The Wings do not have the best defensive corp in the league…they’re good, but not the best*. Hatcher is a great acquisition as he should be able to fill in for an aging Chelios. Lidstrom is rock solid. They have some kids that are coming along. DET needs Hasek back as Cujo just does not seem to be the type of goalie you win a cup with.

The Avs will have offense to spare but no Patrick will really hurt their chances. Their Defensive corps is really talented. Blake, Foote, and Morris (who had a breakout season). The Avs also have some kids that are either coming along or ready for their chance. Come to think of it, DET and COL have very similar defensive corps. The Avs need to sign a goalie in order to really be considered contenders. Watch out if they can land Khabibulin.

Colorado appears to want Forsberg to retire while winning a cup, a la Ray Bourque, and are willing to spend the money to make it happen.
P.S. I guess the Ducks won’t have a 2nd season as contenders after all.

*We can get into the defensive depth on every team but I think it boils down to several teams having solid bluelines, without any one team really standing out above the rest.

3

I also read the “Wow, Colorado is a shoo-in at this point… they have it wrapped!”

I don’t get it. Weren’t Selanne and Kariya together before?

And what did they win? Nothing. Not even a single playoff series. They are both defensive liabilities, and without Roy to act as the savior… I think they could score 4 goals in a LOT of games… and lose.

My only question about the Wings is where they are getting all this money. Even without Federov, they seem to be adding a LOT of payroll.

4

Don’t be so sure, the rumors here in detroit are that the Ducks will sign Federov.

5

I assume you mean this deal and picking up Haseks option. Remember that there is zero chance that the wings will carry both Hasek and Joseph. They may(well, probably will) have to eat some of Joseph’s contract, but the Wings front office is one of the best in the league, they know what they’re doing. Plus the wings are one of the most profitable franchises in professional sports, they’re spending a lot of money because they have a lot of money.

6

The Ilitch’s (sp?) are spending all of the Tigers’ revenue sharing money on the Wings, I warrant. :
My poor Tigers.

7

It also wouldn’t shock me if they went after our own Sean Burke, who has been absolutely amazing at times. When he’s not hurt.
Especially since I can’t see the Coyotes doing much this year, even if we did get Tyson Nash.

8

The answer is “No, they didn’t buy themselves a cup,” for 2 reasons.

First, obviously, having the most talent does not guarantee a cup win.

Second, in regards to the “buying” statement, as it stands they’ve reduced their payroll from last year. Patrick Roy’s retirement shaves 8.5 Million from their payroll, while adding Selanne and Kariya only ads 7 million. They’ve also traded Steve Reinprecht which saves them some money. So far this off season they’re at least 2 million better off them they were last season (not including any contractual pay raises to players they already have).

Anyways, the reason i searched for this thread was to have alittle buit of a mini-rant. I just watched TSN (Canadian sports channel for those that don’t know) and they had Brian Murray and Brian Burke (Gm’s of Anaheim and Vancouver respectively)bitching about this deal.

Brian Murray was complaining that he offered them more money (9 million to divide between the two of them), but they weren’t even interested. “No respect, blah blah blah. We’re a competitive team, blah blah blah.”

Gimme a break Brian. Face it, the only reason your team made it to the finals was the play of Guigere. If he’s not superhuman again, you’re an also ran, even if you got Kariya and Selanne. I think the fact that they took less money for a better chance to win admirable.

Secondly, Anaheim had them together for 6 (i think) years, they were surrounded by crap players, and the team never went anywhere. I’m thinking that they don’t exactly have warm and fuzzy memories of Anaheim. Add to that the fact that they KNOW that signing with Anaheim means stifling their natural style of play. Which leads me to…

Three. These guys are highly skilled offensive superstars man! In Anaheim they’d be stuck playing a slow, boring brand of hockey. Kariya has been doing that his entire professional career. Selanne’s been there and done that with you guys already. In Colorado, they’d be playing with other players of their calibre, and they’d be playing a more offensive, fun style of hockey. Can you blame the thoroughbreds if they want to run?

And Mister Burke. “IT must be nice to have unlimited funds. How much skill does it take to write a cheque? I have to draft my players and develop them in the system.” SHUT. THE HELL. UP. Let’s run through the Colorado roster.

(1)Sakic-drafted.
(2)Hejduk-drafted.
(3)Tanguay-drafted.
(4)Forsberg-acquired through Lindros trade. When Quebec/Colorado got him he was an 18 year old nobody.
(5)drury-No longer with the team, but another highly skilled forward-drafted.
(6)Morris-skilled young d-man-acquirred in trade for Drury
(7)Skoula-drafted
(8)Foote-guessing drafted, he’s been with them forever.

So let’s see Mister Burke, their top 4 forwards (prior to this signing) were all drafted (with the exception of Forsburg) and developed internally. 2 of their top 4 d-men were drafted and developed internally, and another top 4 d-man was acquired be trading a highly skilled forward, who by the way was drafted and developed internally.

They DEVELOP AND DRAFT their superstars. The only difference between them and most teams is that they can afford to keep them when they become superstars.

End mini-rant.

9

And i think Colorado can’t yet be considered the favourites to win the cup, because as previously mentioned, they have a serious deficiency in net. Right now they’re just looking to me like St. Louis (pre-Osgood) on steroids. 60 million dollar team with a half million dollar goalie. That’s no way to win.

Another thing I just remembered is that they’re lacking in role players up front. They don’t really have a Kirk Maltby/Kris Draper type player. At foward they kinda go from All Star to barely in the league without a stop in between. This has always been a criticism I had of Colorado, they’ve always had loads of talent, but they’re soft and top heavy talent-wise. Kariya and Selanne don’t do anything to help that.

The good news is that there are good goalies available. Detroit has gotta move either Cujo or Hasek, which could start the dominoes falling for some good goalies being available for Colorado. Tampa Bay is looking at moving Khabibulin, Washington is looking at shedding salary and Kolzig is available. The Rangers have 4 NHL goalies right now with Richter, Dunham, Blackburn and Markaanen so something’s gotta give there. Sean Burke would probably be availble from Phoenix considering how well Zack Byrke(?) played last year.

Heck, with the amount of firepower Colorado has they could get Felix Potvin for nothing (unrestricted free agent) and be considered favourites. They’re good enough at all other positions offensively that they don’t need a superstar goalie, just somebody competent. I foresee alot of 5-4 or 4-3 games in their future.

So, IMHO, they will be fun as hell to watch. Not since the 80’s Oilers or early-mid 90’s Penguins has their been a team this stacked with offensive talent.

I don’t see them winning a cup as they are though. I think they upgraded the wrong part of their club. They don’t need more firepower up front, they need a real third line. They had 2 great first lines and two fourth lines. Now, they’ve got 2 really great first lines and 2 fourth lines.

They need to get Greg DeVries re-signed to keep their back-end stable and they should get Trent Klatt, or maybe try prying Mike Grier or Halpern out of Washington along with Kolzig. Relegating Battaglia to the third line will help bring it some sorely needed offensive punch, getting Grier/Klatt/Halpern will bring solid physical play and defense with a touch of offense. Along with Shantz they’d have a legit third line. I’m sorry, but guys like Parker, Keane, Hinote, and Eric Messier aren’t 3rd line players on a Stanley Cup winning team. Even Shantz is marginal.

I have a feeling i’m talking to myself, so I’ll stop now.

10

Gotta agree with many of the other posts. I don’t see Abischer winning a Cup. Then again, I’m sure he’ll be the backup by the start of the year. If Colorado splurged for Selanne and Kariya, I’m sure they’ll make the effort to put someone of a high caliber in net. Colorado is going to have a great offense, but Detroit had a very good one last year and they were swept in the playoffs by a hot goalie. That alone should prove you can’t just buy the Stanley Cup - and it also shows why they’ll surely find a more proven goalie. I don’t think Detroit will give them Joseph, but there are options. Also, Detroit picked up Derian Hatcher today, which may give them a boost on D.

11

that’s a bit of an understatement given that Detroit now has three of last years Norris Trophy Finalists. Also, you’re right, about cujo, There is no way in hell that the Wings will trade either goalie to colorado. Maybe if they gave us Forsberg for one of them straight up. But that’s not gonna happen.

12

If you could buy a Cup, the Wild and the Ducks wouldn’t have played in the Western Conf finals. And the Rangers would have made the playoffs recently. And the Caps would have beat the lightning. Hockey isn’t baseball.

You can’t buy a cup, but you can sure increase your odds of winning one, and getting these guys makes this Avs fan happy. And I’m crossing my fingers for Khabibulan, he was always my second-favorite NHL goalie, behind Roy. Next year is gonna be damn fun.

13

If you ask the New York Mets of the last two years - this year especially - or the Orioles or Dodges of recent years, you might find that sometimes baseball isn’t baseball either. :wink:

14

You know how lots of older hockey fans fondly remember the days of the Original Six? We’ve done even better these days–only four damn teams can win the Stanley Cup anymore.

The NHL needs major overhauling, both on and off the ice, and if that means wasting an entire season, so be it.

15

*italics indicates where I cut out some of the comment

I agree with the above statement. As for on the ice, I’m getting scared that the head office is going to do something really stupid/drastic to the on ice product. But I guess that discussion is for another thread.

16

Greenback: I don’t want something done like making the ice bigger or even the goal bigger or eliminating the center red line. I’ll settle at first for actually enforcing rule restrictions on goalie equipment size and doing something once and freaking for all about all clutching and grabbing and trapping crap.

17

If they didn’t have warm fuzzy feelings of Anaheim, they would not have signed up together (now with the Avs), regardless of team. I went to many of their games in Anaheim; It was FAST, not slow; It was EXCITING, not boring! Check Teemu’s stats out and then tell me that they played slow and boring hockey. Disney has always been the team’s worst enemy; just enough star power to bring the fans in and move the merchandise out, but not enough backup players and goaltending to make it a high caliber playoff team. Injuries also played a role with Kariya, and Teemu was left hanging when Paul was out with concussions. Disney would never bother getting support for those two during their 5 1/2 seasons (over a 7 year period), until Disney thought it would be a novel idea to get some much needed free agents this year. And with a good goaltending, Whadaya know! A great playoff run! Assuming too much, the Ducks assumed Kariya would just re-sign with the Ducks, but since this next season will be the last before bargaining agreement Armageddon, Kariya is thinking this season will probably be his last bonafide attempt to get the Cup. Teemu’s last chance too. I think they made a great decision in signing with Colorado and left extra money to give the Avs a great chance to make another coup at goaltender.

LaCroix has always made smart moves and he’s definitely not done yet. Like a moth to light, goaltenders (especially goalies who are without a cup - Kolzig, Khabibulan, et al.) are gonna flock to this team and inquire about Roy’s old spot (if Roy REALLY doesn’t want to play this year.) Goofier things have happened that brings goalies back, right Hasek? I definitely can’t wait to see what happens next season; maybe the Red Wings facing another sweep? Red Wings…older, slower and another year of disappointment awaits…

Go Avs!