Did God lie to the Jews?

Many Jewish commentators use Psalms 90:4 as an explanation for this.

Zev Steinhardt

But does not say that they will get a bigger and better temple and is really better without the the Ark (which is also the throne of God)? God promises that he will shake all nations and all the desired nations will come and fill the Temple with glory. When does that happen?

That prediction is vague enough to be filled by literally dozens of historical events during the period that the Second Temple existed. Alex the Great, rise and fall of the Persians, Rome, Maccabee or Zealot revolts, Jesus, etc.

According to your original post, it’s: “and the desired of all nations” not the desired nations. I don’t know, but my guess is that what was meant by the “desired of all nations” were the members of the Jewish Diaspora, which had just been premited by the Persians (Assyrians? I forget) to return to Jeruselum after being scattered across the ME by the Babylonians. If I’m right, then this isn’t even a prediction of the future, but rather something that was happening at the time.

There are plenty of contradictory or false statements in the Bible, but I still don’t see how the one you quoted is one.

I 'spose. But even if we accept that explanation, I’d say Yahweh is still misleading Adam. Even if it’s not a technical lie, it’s pretty close.

Before I even looked, I pretty much knew what this said! :slight_smile:

In biblical Hebrew, the use of a doubled verb is generally an emphasis. KJV often uses “verily” or “surely” to capture the concept in English.

God tempered justice with mercy, not for the last time. Instead of rubbing Adam out and starting again, he let him live (900-odd years according to Genesis) and found the human race. If that’s a technical lie, it’s not a bad one. :slight_smile:

Clubhouse lawyer?

I’ll probably be booed for this, but just look ahead to chapter 3, verse 21. (Another odd coincidence in my long log-- 3/21 is today’s date!) None other than NONE OTHER goes out of his way to indicate that “the devil” told the truth. Actually, the serpent, as others have pointed out.

Adam was booted out mainly to keep him from “reaching out his hand” {NIV version} to take from the tree of life to eat and live forever.

…Two very interesting things here. No mention of “the woman” although I suppose it is possible that she would be logically included without reading into the text.

Perhaps more significant, as others have pointed out to me elsewhere… NOWHERE in the passage had it said that Adam and Eve started out with immortality.

It was conditional upon eating from the tree of life. (Genesis 2:9 is the first mention.)

Just my personal opinion of what the text actually does say and directly imply. Everyone else’s MMV* and I’m willing to listen. – Particularly to people scholarly enough to know the original language.

True Blue Jack

  • Note to everyone, especially newbies. MMV is a shortening of the common abbreviation, YMMV, which means “YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY” – An acknowledgment of room for discussion.

A perfect example of why god can never lie. God says they will die the same day they eat the fruit- they eat the fruit- they don’t die that day. No problem, just redefine the word “die” and god is off the hook!

Well put. :slight_smile:

True Blue Jack

Please bear in mind that the text made sense to the people who originally compiled it in Hebrew. Whereas ya’ll are playing “gotcha” based on translations. BTW, as I’ve mentioned often but I see a couple names in the thread which whom I’ve not debated before, I’m an atheist.

Well, I think you have a good point that it made sense to the original people involved in producing it. But I don’t think we have to jump to something being lost in translation because of that. As Malodorous claims, there need not be a reason for God never to “lie” to people. Personally, it strikes me more a matter of going back on a threat.

(A broken “promise” isn’t quite the same thing as a lie, at least not for people. Then again, God supposedly knows the future, including his own actions, so we could be right back where we started.)

I think it more telling that “the devil” told the truth and never once made a lying statement. This from someone who was supposed to be a liar from the beginning and the father of lies.

At most, there is a misleading question at the beginning, asking Eve whether God had forbidden every tree in the garden.

One thing that has not been touched on is the question of the Tree of Life. They were prevented from eating from it afterward, but why not eat from it at the very first opportunity?

I don’t consider any of this playing GOTCHA. More like beating a long-dead horse. There are plenty of more crushing problems with taking the Bible as “infallible” including the non-existence of Darius the Great or that of the city of Nazareth at the time of Jesus.

True Blue Jack

I think they did. They are allowed to eat every tree except the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. So presumably they could and did eat from the Tree of Life while they were living in Eden. They’re also immortal in the Garden, but not after they’d been cast out, so reading between the lines I would guess that to gain immortality from the tree you have to keep eating it’s fruit. Unlike the Tree of Knowledge, it’s effects aren’t permenant so they “loose” immortality after God casts them out and blocks the way back into Eden.

Yeah, but God miraculously extracted all the thallium oxide from the soil, and after that, the tree of life didn’t grow properly. :smiley:

In my humble opinion, Malacandra, I think sweet potato pie was a fair trade.



Y’all kin jes’ leave mah fav’rit auntie out o’ this!!!**

True Blue Jack

And who, henceforth, “upon thy belly thou shall go.”

It doesn’t say how the serpent got around previously.

{Getting serious again…}

Why, on legs, of course! Just ask any fundamentalist.

And, if we’ve learned anything at all from Lamarck, for sure acquired characteristics are inherited. If not for the curse all snakes nowadays would still have legs.

See how simple and clear the Good Book makes it all, y’all?!

True Blue Jack

As I see it God din’t say anything,some human said He said it(there is a big difference).

God didn’t say anything about a soul being lost.(As The Bible has Him say) So it would be inferred it meant that is why humans die.It doesn’t explain why animals and plants(who do not know the difference between good and evil) still die.