I’ve heard hundreds of people saying about how they should capture/kill/nuke Bin Laden, but not one bit of believable evidence that he did it.
He’s admitted every bit of terrorism he’s ever done, even if he only had a small part in it. Except this one.
The evidence found in the car at the airport: the Qu’ran, a video of how to fly commercial jets, things like that. Doesn’t that strike you as a little fishy? All they needed was some sand, a camel’s hump, and “Bin Laden’s Best in Class” terrorism merit badge. It’s the most ridiculous piece of evidence I’ve ever heard of.
The calls from the planes saying that they were arabs with knives. 3 men with knives taking on a plane with 50+ people on? And telling them they were all going to die? Don’t you think there would be some resistance? Yes. The men on board had GUNS. They were TORTURING people. Forcing them to call people and LIE.
And that’s all the evidence they have.
EVERY court in the world would throw that out and laugh. But it’s not a court we’re using. It’s popular opinion. Popular opinion from a country that has oppressed the world for ages and not been attacked back. Opinion from the most arrogant, “They can’t hurt us! We’re American!”, conceited, dangerously aggressive country in the world.
Bush could push the button now and whoever really caused the dreadful deaths of the civilians will be laughing. Like the Palestinians are laughing.
I, too, am concerned that the evidence so far is circumstantial. However, we cannot forget that no REAL action has been taken against bin Laden. Yeah, he’s been found guilty in the press and in the minds of most of the American public, but the investigations and inquiries are continuing at their normal, methodical pace. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but that is to protect the accused from the very vigilantism that you fear.
That, and your female acquaintences are cute so we probably want to keep you around.
There will be not trial, Bin Laden will be killed by military action. Even if he didn’t do this he did: Bomb the WTC before, Bomb 2 US embassies in Africa and other attacks against America. He will die and deserves to die. These folks kicked the big dog.
Many of the people who DID do this are known Bin Laden followers. Not many people could have pulled this off (money and all) and YOU and I do NOT know what other evidence the FBI and CIA etc. have. Are you President Bush? Are you a congressman? Are you Attorney General Ashcroft? Are you Secretary Powell? I admit that it is possible that you are one of those people, but I doubt it.
And need I remind you that we don’t need the burden of proof that a court (especially an American court). This is WAR.
Will he be attacked the same way he was last time, by cruise missile? Such a successful attack. One missile hit a random mountain, the other hit a mosque full of civilians.
If I were him, I’d wait for America to launch a missile and then change my identity, claim it hit.
Frankly I am surprised that the OP from London would accuse the United States of America of “oppressing the world for ages”. Maybe you should read up on your English history.
Fortunately the US government acts more rationally and methodically than the American populous: otherwise Afghanistan would he a heap of radioactive slag. I am confident that the federal investigators will determine who was the mastermind and all will be revealed.
Osama Ben Laden is not an innocent lamb and is worthy of American suspicions. He has proven to be a cold, calculating murderer of Americans in the past and it is extremely likely that he was behind this atrocity. While no court in the world would prosecute him based upon current WTC evidence, there is ample evidence that he has performed terrorist actions against the USA in the past.
I just saw Arafat on the news donating blood to the victims of the attack. Also, the news was showing a number of Palestinians placing flowers, etc., at the gates of the US embassy in Israel. One Palestinian was interviewed and strongly condemned the attack.
This was CBS news, btw.
Let’s try to keep what we say in check so we don’t say things we will later regret. Sayiing “the Palestinians {blank}” is not conducive to anything other than furthering hatred.
The people on the fourth plane did attempt to resist the attackers, because they heard reports from their relatives (who they were phoning) about the planes crashing into buildings.
The reason people didn’t do this on the earler planes is because they thought they were going to be held hostage and they believed that the terrorists had a bomb. (the people on the fourth plane may have believed the bomb thing too, but they heroically laid that aside in a successfull attempt to get the plane away from hitting a populated area.
Ignoring the rather incendiary (and daft) nature of the OP, as this has been declared an act of war, should the people responsible not be tried for war crimes?
I can just imagine Bin Laden with a mockup cruise missile under his arm dramatically exclaiming, “they got me” with a long drug out scene. Or perhaps were you thinking of something fancy created by Industrial Light and Magic?
I found this on cnn.com in approx. 5 seconds. Emphasis is mine. Perhaps before you claim Bin Laden has claimed responsibility for everything he has done, you should do some research.
Of course you’ll probably just say he didn’t do this either. The evidence is NOT from aboard the planes, but is intercepted cel-phone calls from the people involved, as well as prior knowledge about the people and their associates. It’s not like the US hasn’t been building a case against him already.
I would have thought that obvious. However, I see it that it is not. Therefore, let me explain.
The cultural (not racial, not even religious per se) mindset held by many in the Mideast (and, of course, not limited to that area) must be eliminated. So we get bin Laden, or the whole top level of al-Qa’ida? Doesn’t matter; there are plenty who will step into his shoes the next moment, and in the next generation. The only thing that can be done to combat terrorism is to destroy the culture that views being a terrorist a noble and admirable calling. Let me repeat and emphasize that: the only thing that can be done to combat terrorism is to destroy the culture that views being a terrorist a noble and admirable calling.
Therefore: the Afghan culture (among others) must be destroyed.
Unlike both the goons of the left and the thugs of the right, I do not imagine that culture and ethnicity possess some mystic link. I am hardly the first to say that an Afghan child raised in America from birth will be American in every way of thought, and vice versa for an American child raised in Afghanistan. Therefore, I do not believe that the destruction of Afghan culture necessarily entails the destruction of every man, woman, child, dog, and goat in Afghanistan.
Now, as to specifics: a large, light infantry force is wanted; at least 30,000 troops, with air support. I think that going through Pakistan is preferred; however, I will listen to arguments that the Tadjikistan approach is preferable. On entry into Afghan territory, all weapons are collected; refusal to surrender them, or attempts to hide them, are punishable by death. Membership in the Taliban is punishable by death; only proof that membership was forced on someone at gunpoint is to be considered an extenuating circumstance. Membership in al-Qa’ida is punishable by death, no exceptions. Holding a commission in the Afghan armed forces is punishable by death. Private soldiers and low-level bureaucrats may surrender and, after processing including, but not limited to, confiscation of all weapons, will be released in their native places (when those are accessible); resistance is subject to death where it is considered necessary and expedient.
Civilian opposition (including support of guerilla activity) is punishable by relocation. Children who have not attained to the age of discretion (I will set this, for sake of discussion, at seven years; but this is a completely arbitrary number) will be adopted out to American families. Records of their Afghan origin will be destroyed (or even better, not made in the first place). All others will be confined to relocation camps for life; they will be considered legally dead, with no release for compassionate leave, etc. Adequate food (on the potatoes-and-water level), clothing, shelter, and basic medical care will be provided. Sufficient real unskilled labor (where available) or makework will be made available to prevent “cabin fever”.
All future business and education in Afghanistan will be conducted in English. All education will be provided by Americans; attempts to provide education in Pushto, including but not limited to religious education, is to be considerated as opposition. Islam will not be supressed, but any otherwise illegal action urged in its name will be punished as usual. Local autonomy is abolished; after a suitable period (I recommend twenty years), it will be restored gradually, with full independence in (I envision) thirty-five years. Infrastructure (roads, sewers, electrical grids, hospitals, etc.) will be constructed and will be financed by local taxes to the extent possible; of course, these will not be adequate, and heavy subsidization by the United States will necessary.
Repeat in other countries as required.
This will be a long, brutal, and costly (in money and in lives, both American and Afghan) process. Tuesday, however, we saw the alternative.
So you actually think cultural imperialism is a good idea?
Where do you place the risk that real, actual cultural imperialism might cause further violent hatred against the US and her allies? Zero? I sure as hell don’t.
What’s your evidence that ‘Afghan culture’ is to blame anyway? Is it the slippers? the turbans? the language? the fucking lamb curry?
Hate is hate is hate is hate. It isn’t hardwired into the fucking Pushtu language.
From the Washington Post:
"Bin Laden’s statements in the period leading up to Tuesday’s multiple terrorist attacks seem to fit into a well-established routine. Interviewed last month in the mountains of southern Afghanistan by a London-based Arab journalist, he boasted – without going into detail – that he and his followers were planning “a very big one.” "
Again, not true- specifically rebutted by rushtopher.
Cite please? According to the Washington Post, “law enforcement officials confirmed that a car believed to belong to the hijackers was confiscated in Boston and contained an Arabic language flight manual.” Perhaps you should actually read some newspapers rather than listening to rumors.
Jesus. Should we call you ‘Twitch’ for pulling on hair triggers, or ‘Jumpy’ for hitting wrong conclusions?
Some of the planes had six to eight terrorists upon them.
We do not know that the terrorists told all of the passengers that they were all going to die.
You do not know that there were guns on board.
You do not know that they were torturing people
Twitch, you are full of bile and hate, and using the tragic deaths of thousands of people to grandstand your personal and political opinions.
You are pathetic.
I hope one day you are mature enough to feel embarrassed for what you’re doing now.
Akatsukami, you’re an idiot. Scratch that. You’re a fucking idiot.
Let me just review some of your statements so far:
You glibly talk about genocide and conquering foreign countries, showing a knowledge of war that would embarrass the most alcohol fueled of armchair generals.
You’re talking about a mountainous country the size of texas, with a people who succesfully fought off Russia when Russia had the advantage of a border, and vastly easier logistical chains. You talk about forcing Pakistan, a known member of the nuclear gang, to do as the USA dictates.
You’re a fucking moron, whose solution would guarantee the biggest mess this planet has ever seen. God help us all if you have any authority in life.
Don’t be an imbecile. 3 to 6 men with knives can easily hold an airplane if (1) the crew and passengers believe they have explosives and (2) the crew and passengers are under the assumption that the hijackers want them as hostages and are trying to go to a specific location, not want the plane as a weapon. Oh by the way, up until 2 days ago, that was the case for practically every hijacking ever known.
As for evidence, you don’t know the full evidence that the CIA has amassed against Bin Laden. Just yesterday they’ve identified the names of many of the terrorists involved, who have strong ties to Bin Laden. While it is fair to be concerned about a rush to judgment and about an overreaction, don’t spout off your own idiocy in the process.
Akatsukami, uh, yeah, that’s a good plan. :rolleyes:
