Witnessing belongs in our Great Debates forum, by definition.
Sorry for the many mispellings, etc. It’s time for my nap. Wake me up when it’s all over. It’s been fun, but I think I need sleep, nourishment and better focus, somewhere else. It’s been a slice.
Thanks again, bye…
Whole lot of stuff here that really doesn’t have anything to do with the topic of the OP, which is about evidence for the existence of Jesus and the veracity of the Shroud of Turin. Care to talk about those specific topics?
Cute asides aside, I do hope you will actually converse with us the next time you pop by.
MODERATOR INSTRUCTION: imfaithy2, this is a discussion of the shroud of Turin and its dating, and the existence of the historical Jesus. Job’s circles and evolution and Paul’s visions are not the topic here. If you return to this thread, please stick to topic. If you want to describe or discuss your faith, such conversations /witnessing belong in the forum called “Great Debates.”
If you don’t return, of course, then it doesn’t matter where you don’t post.
Titus Flavius according to one historian who has just written a book saying jesus story was really a roman emperor,
we know the first person to write about jesus josepheus was living at the same time as Titus not jesus, another historian alf henrikkson says that no-one ever wrote about jesus while he was alive,
we also know that december 25th is a pagan festival and that st peters square has the obelisk bought over from alexandria another pagan symbol,
remember there is not one person who knows that the bible is correct only people who believe,
The bible is used to keep people as serfs.
Any date on the modern calender would correspond to a Pagan holiday somewhere. The Romans in particular were famous for their many holidays…
Not a factual statement in the least…
The overwhelming majority of historians agree that Jesus did exist. I would encourage anyone interested to do their own research. I don’t want to recommend any references Because I wouldn’t want my biases to be a subject of debate. The real question is about his divinity. Remember we have our biases
Not to the majority of religions in the world. 
I have that. From George Wald, SciAm, 1954 explaining Oparin’s 1936 book The Origin of Life. For the event of just the right molecules colliding in just the right way: It doesn’t matter how small the probability of this event occurring in any given year, because when given enough years, the probability of this event occurring just once approaches certainty. Evolution assumes that once is enough.
This is God’s Truth as I understand it, a piece of cloth is vanity and vexation of spirit and can only distract us from loving our brother as we love ourselves. Look at us, fighting over this.
If you’ve got propellant and material, you’ve done more than fart–and probably need a change of underwear.
I’ve done some, but aside from the Gospels and Josephus the evidence for a man named Jesus who was proclaimed King of the Jews and executed by the Romans is extremely sparse, as far as I can tell.
Powers &8^]
wow stuff like this seems so ludicrous to me. i doubt that was the shroud that was actually covering jesus’ body anyway. when it comes to religion you can find a hundred reasons to believe or not to believe, it’s really just your choice and your natural disposition that confirms which way you go. people just need to stop obsessing over holy grails, shrouds, finding arks, etc. you’ll never know!
IF for the sake of argument I was to accept that the shroud came from 33AD or thereabouts and has markings caused by a body (I don’t), WHY does that imply that the body in question was Jesus?
Because it would increase the resale value of the shroud.
Ad that’s why the universe has all kinds of shit in it. 
I know this reply is very late but this subject should be looked at again.
First of all we know one thing for a fact.
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No one in recorded history was crucified and tortured in the way that Jesup and the man of the shroud were crucified. This is one reason why many think that this is Jesus.
I’m surprised that so many believers don’t know much about the shroud. -
The image fits the gospel description of the passion and crucifixion of Christmas to the letter.
What you should find amazing is that any famous historian wrote anything at all about Jesus and Christianity since it was considered a very tiny sect of Judaism . If you are looking at it the way major New Testament scholars look at it it’s no wonder why almost all of them whether atheist , liberal theology, agnostic (Bart Ehrman ) or Christian scholar believes so strongly that the historic Jesus existed .
If you went up to someone and told them that Alexander the Great didnt exist they would look at you like you need to be committed to an institution , yet Jesus whose group was extremely small back in the first century and belonged to an insignificant town had a much stronger historicity then even Alexander the Great whose most reliable writings were 300 to 490 years after his existence , yet nit one person doubts the existence of Alexander the Great .
This is called having a bias that is not in line with the reality and majority of historical experts .
And I agree and Fanti says he’s going to submit this to peer review . These are 3 new dating methods so we will have to wait fir him to prove himself to us , plus he will have to prove the chain of evidence that these fibers he has tested cam with from the flask that had cardinal ballestrero signature on it.
But u don’t even need these tests to show that the shroud was much older then the now invalidated 1988 c14 tests.
Remember that the team in charge of the 1988 tests failed to do a microchemical analysis to make sure that the sample tested was chemically the same as the rest of the shroud .
The man who invalidates the 1988 c14 tests was Agnostic thermal chemist ray Rogers senior fellow at Los alamos labs who did have samples from the 1988 test and he also had fiber samples from all parts of the shroud including image areas and when he finished his chemical analysis he found that the 1988 sample was totally different chemically then the rest of the shroud.
Then he found out why. Rogers found cotton interwoven into regular shroud linen
, which is an obvious sign of a reweave . He then found madder dye in the 1988 c14 sample . He found no interwoven Cotten or madder dye in any other area of the shroud .
He finished this off by doing a vanillin test on the sample area and on the rest if the shroud. Rogers found that the 1988 sample tested 37% positive for vanillin making it a totally newer piece then the rest of the shroud which tested negative for vanillin.
Rogers then dated the rest of the shroud to between 1300 and 3000 years old .
The reason for the wide date range is that Rogers had to account fir all the different storage conditions that could have effected the rate of vanillin loss during the shrouds history .
There are many other historical evidences that show the shroud to be much older then medieval times .
Rogers then submitted his research and was accepted by the peer reviewed chemical specialist journal thermochimica acta after 7 months .
Here is a link to the peer reviewed paper
http://www.shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF
Few shroud experts don’t accept the now invalidated 1988 c14 tests
Jessy, try telling this to Missouri lawyer mark Antonacci who deliberately set out to prove to his Christian girlfriend 25 years ago that Christianity was a fairy tale and started by trying to debunk the shroud . Not only did he fail to debunk the shroud but after 25 Years of research he changed his mind about the shroud bases on the evidences and eventually became a Christian.
Here is one major fact here . 21st century science hasn’t been able to replicate this image with its unique properties .
I’ve given u guys less the. .001% of what I have found in my 5+ years of researching the shroud.
If you want to get an overview of what science currently knows about it there was a good presentation given by a doctor to a group of high school seniors on the shroud.
The good thing here is that this doctor is in daily email contact with the Sturp team
That was the only group of scientists that actually got permission to study the ahroud first hand for 5 straight 24 hour days in 1978.
This video is a good start fir anyone looking to research the shroud.