Did King Charles I really deserve his fate?

Cromwell was the archetypal personification of the saying: ‘Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.’ He basically got into the situation of finding that it’s easier for one person to govern than for an elected parliament to do so. Of course, the ‘one person’ did not have a divine right!

Incidentally, you can see the waistcoat that Charles was wearing when executed at Longleat House, near Bath in England. The bloodstains are still visible and it is a chilling artefact from over 350 years ago.

While Cromwell did make out financially from the Protectorate, there’s no real indication that he himself was personally corrupt or that he allowed his desire for personal gain to shape his actions.

Bradshaw’s speech needs to be read in the context of the comments by Charles I to which he was responding, a speech which most historians agree played at least as well with contemporary opinion. Bradshaw may read now as if it was stirring stuff, but he was on the defensive, fully aware that Charles had hit home when he claimed that, compared to them, he was the real defender of traditional law. Nor was this a new theme for Charles, for it was exactly what he had been saying with great subtlety and much intellectual sophistication since 1641. (The subtlety and sophistication having initially been provided by his ghost-writer, Sir Edward Hyde.)

Moreover, as Richard Cust stresses in his major new biography of him, Charles actually believed this stuff. Talk about ‘divine right’ and ‘absolute power’ misses the point. Almost everyone, including most of the members of the high court of justice, believed that the king was God’s Anointed and that his power was ‘absolute’, which is hardly surprising when contemporary Englishmen had almost always previously associated the denial of such things with popery. The standard complaint of his critics was that he should rule more like Elizabeth I. But Charles thought that he was ruling like Elizabeth I. Same with religion. It wasn’t that Charles was any less ‘Protestant’ than his critics; it was that they disagreed about what being a Protestant meant. Most historians would now say that Charles was less right when he claimed that his was the traditional form of ‘Protestant’ Christianity (in contradiction to his opponents, who claimed that they were the real traditionalists), but that wasn’t at all obvious at the time and is a point that is still hotly debated.

Nor was his talk of wanting to work with Parliament dishonest. A point historians have only very recently begun to stress is that we should not forget that, unlike any of his predecessors within living memory, he had actually sat in a Parliament and not just in an honorary capacity either – one of the latest historiographical fashions is to see him as the leading figure in the 1624 Parliament, with him having used it to try to manipulate his father. He thus knew what it was like to manage a Parliament from the inside and so was correspondingly more inclined to see low motives behind his opponents’ high talk. When he felt that the 1625, 1626 and 1628 Parliaments had betrayed him, he meant that personally, that men with whom he had worked closely in 1624 had failed to deliver on policies for which they had hitherto been gung-ho (war with Spain) now that it really mattered. By 1629 Charles could feel that he had twice given them the benefit of the doubt and that they had twice let him down. And he had a point. It was not that he somehow failed to see Parliament as the high-minded guardian of the national interests. Parliament wasn’t that and thinking that it was was a mistake he had made already. No, seventeenth-century Parliaments really were inconsistent, factious, petty-minded and often short-sighted. It is just that the smarter thing would have been to accept them for what they were, rather than to expect them to prove that they were better than that.

But he wasn’t politically stupid. One thing that Cust is very good on is how tactically astute he could be. Charles wasn’t a natural politician, but he was much smarter than his modern popular image. That was also his undoing. If he had been just the naïve idealist, a two-dimensional believer in his ‘divine right’, his critics would easily have outmanoeuvred him. There would have been no need to depose him or even to fight a civil war. The usual round of factional infighting at court would have done the trick. Indeed, that is pretty much what his leading critics in Parliament thought they were doing in 1640-2 and many of them continued to think in such terms right to the very end. Charles however played dirty and proved to be rather good at it. That was why he was able to fight Parliament in 1642 and why he was able to hold out against them until 1646.

garius’s poker analogy for the trial is a good one, but only if one recognises that the regicides’ bluff was also called. The most recent professional historian to have written in detail about the trial, Sean Kelsey, has turned the conventional interpretation on its head. (One of his articles on the subject is available online.) Far from wanting to execute Charles, most of the members of the high court of justice only envisaged the trial as a prelude to further negotiations. Faced with the apparent threat of execution, Charles was supposed to make some sort of acknowledgement of his errors (not necessarily an actual guilty plea) and only then would they have begun negotiating. Even Cromwell would probably have preferred a deal on that basis. This backfired because, in hoping that Charles would plead, they gave him lots of chances to claim the (other) moral high ground. He mistakenly thought he had nothing to lose. Forced into this unexpected corner, the members of high court of justice – or rather the minority of them who were prepared to act – found themselves having to follow through the threat. They would doubtless have said, and indeed did say, that Charles deserved his fate, but it may not have been the one most of them had really wanted for him.

I’d agree wholeheartedly with that. If Charles had shown any kind of willingness to come to the negotiating table at all then Parliament, and a good chunk of the army, would have welcomed that wholeheartedly. Trouble was he didn’t and, to a certain extent, couldn’t. After all, if he’d been inclined to negotiate then the war may never have happened or dragged on as long as it did in the first place.

Its important not to think of the English Civil War as being some kind of vast conflict between conflicting ideologies - it wasn’t. Both sides largely shared the same beliefs and ideas on government. The dispute was more a struggle between two parties with slightly different views on where the final balance of power within that government sat.

There was no massive desire to execute Charles - very few people on the Parliamentary side didn’t want there to be a king, they just wanted Charles to admit that he was wrong and apologise so things could essentially go back to the way they were.

It was a very English Revolution :smiley:

So yeah, both sides got their bluff called in the end. The King never expected Parliament to go through with it, and Parliament never expected the King to let it get that far. Quite sad really when you think about it.

Maybe a better analogy would be a tragic game of Chicken - the tragedy being that neither side ultimately chickened out.

Except that he had negotiated with Parliament, at Oxford in early 1643, at Uxbridge in early 1645 and at Newport in late 1648 and each time he thought that he had shown the greater willingness to compromise. With Parliament, of course, each time thinking the opposite.

His miscalculation in the long run was to think that he could get a better deal if he held out for one. But the main reason he thought that was because there were certain points in the short term when that had indeed proved to be the case. By rejecting the 1646 Newcastle Propositions, he had in 1647 got offered what he thought were the slightly more acceptable Heads of Proposals. It therefore wasn’t completely implausible to assume that yet another shift in the factional infighting within Parliament might bring yet more concessions. After all, the main reason why the army expelled half the MPs from the Commons in December 1648 was because they feared that that was exactly what was about to happen.

You’re right, of course. Forgot about that :smack:

(I’m working from memory on this - all my books are back in the UK)

Great discussion. To answer the OP, yes, I think he deserved his fate. Charles was pigheaded and held royalist views (duh) that were diametrically opposed to the views of Parliament, i.e. those in power. There was no indication that he would change his mind and, if he remained a captive, he might escape and/or become a focus of opposition to the Cromwellian state. The solution of the day, in England and so many other countries, was simple: off with his head.

A sidenote: I remember once reading that, when Winston Churchill was first heading the Admiralty, he wanted to name a warship after Cromwell (who had actually done a lot of good for the Navy in his day), but King George V forbade it. Even 300-some years later, the King didn’t want a regicide commemorated with a warship.

Although there is a statue of Cromwell near the House of Commons, IIRC…

Yeah, the statue of Cromwell is directly in front of Westminster Palace (Parliament) but it took a long time for him to get one.

AFAIK The statue was erected after fierce debate in the House of Commons. He’d effectively been written out of the other architectural memorial to the history of British Government - the line of kings, which runs around the palace frontage, jumps straight from Charles I to Charles II.

Then in 1895, The House of Commons narrowly voted 500 quid for a statue of Cromwell in front of the Palace of Westminster, but this was eventually withdrawn after fierce opposition in the House of Lords and parts of the press.

Finally an anonymous donor pledged 500 quid for a statue of Cromwell on condition that it appeared in a “suitable” location. Representatives from the House of Commons then decided that right in front of the Palace of Westminster just happened to be a really suitable place :wink:

The statue was unveiled without ceremony at the end of the century and it was pretty much an open secret that the anonymous donor was none other than Earl Rosebery - the Prime Minister :smiley:

Wouldn’t surprise me. He wouldn’t have been the only monarch with Cromwell issues - Queen Victoria allegedly refused to officially open Manchester Town Hall because the City Councillors refused to remove the statue of Cromwell erected in front of it.

I’m sure she was not amused.

Did they really exhume the judge who sentenced Charles I and hang him unpon Charles II’s return?

Yes. Charles II exhumed and displayed Oliver Cromwell, Herny Ireton, Thomas Pride, and John Bradshaw. He also executed, by hanging, drawing and quartering, Thomas Harrison, John Jones, Adrian Scroope, John Carew, Thomas Scot, and Gregory Clement, Hugh Peters, Francis Hacker, Daniel Axtel, and John Cook. Another 19 men involved were put in prison for life.

There is a certain amount of class to that, all though it is the sort shown by Al Capone and William the Bastard.

Capone was told that several innocent witnesses would have to be killed at the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre.
“I’ll send flowers.”

William the Bastard, later Conquorer, cut off the right (left?) hands of men around a city that wouldn’t surrender and catapulted the hands over the wall.
“Sorry Sir, a misunderstanding, we’re terribly sorry, all on the same page now!”

Its not just a book - I recently saw it on VHS.

Cromwell did get a tank named after him a war later, though (as did Churchill).

Part of Charles’ big problems were that he completely forgot about Scotland. Had he strongly held it, he might have been alright clear through. As it was, the Stewart line had basically ignored Scotland for several centuries, and Scotland repaid the favor in turn. The only loyalist part was the Highlands, and that was as much because of local poliics as any national feeling.