So, I work for a community-based psychiatric rehabilitation center as a case manager. If you don’t know what that means … it’s hard to explain. If you know you know, ya know? Anyway, one thing my job most definitely does not involve is giving legal advice.
Today my boss gave a client legal advice. At least, that’s how it looks from where I sit. The client is facing felony charges because reasons (felony assault, he’s likely looking at a year or thereabouts, if I had to guess), and he brought me this form they gave him to apply for a public defender. His cost would be a few hundred bucks. He asked me if he should hire the public defender. I told him that I can’t give legal advice but that his options as I see them are: represent himself, with the caveat that a man who represents himself in court has a fool for an attorney; plead guilty and face the music; or hire the public defender. He said he’d think on it.
On the way out of the building, my boss asked him about his legal troubles, he reiterated what I’d told him, and that he’d think on it. Boss said, “No, you need to hire the public defender.”
I feel like she overstepped her bounds here, professionally and ethically. Which brings me to my next point: in training, the Ethics and Compliance Officer told us to report all ethics violations we suspect, we can’t be punished for whistleblowing, yada yada. However, my boss would know I was the only one who filed the complaint, and this seems like starting off our professional relationship on the wrong foot.
What say you, Dopers?
FWIW, I’m leaning towards keeping my mouth shut and staying in my lane, but I’m curious about the community’s opinions.
Yes, and incorrect legal advice. Getting a public defender and pleading guilty are not mutually exclusive. In fact, someone should still get legal representation if they’re pleading guilty.
Is “you should get a lawyer” legal advice? I wouldn’t consider “you should see a doctor” medical advice, or “you should talk to an accountant” financial advice. Doesn’t seem like it would be different for a lawyer.
I feel like “you should get a lawyer” is legal advice the way “you should ask a doctor” is medical advice. I mean, i guess it is, but it’s not what’s usually forbidden.
As to what you should do, i think you should ask your boss about it. It sounds like the two of you aren’t on the same page regarding the rules, and it’s better if you are. How long have you been working for this woman? Which of you had more experience? Either way, i think an honest conversation would be helpful.
In my opinion, not as a lawyer, but as a manager of an organization of hundreds of people at a company with quite strict HR policies with corresponding in depth training is this…
Your boss did not give legal advice, they gave advice to get legal advice. I see no problem here.
Okay, it sounds like his options are really either get the public defender or defend himself, which he apparently hadn’t been considering. There’s also the possibility of trying to get a cheap lawyer. Which may be practically off the table, and which you didn’t present to him as an option.
It sounds to me more like a question of “how do I navigate this bureaucracy?” rather than “what legal decision should I make?” Filling out the form for a public defender just doesn’t feel like a legal decision.
I guess we’re all free to assume what we like. My assumption, f’instance, is that the OP and the boss are at or near the beginning of their working relationship, and no “terms” have yet been firmly established.
Also, i think it’s a good first step if you have concerns about another employee’s ethical behavior. Certainly for anything that’s questionable, and not blatantly obvious.
For reference, my boss misinterpreted something i said as accusing him of doing something unethical. He was really upset, and went to HR about it, and asked if i shouldn’t have approached them if i had concerns. And they said no, i had done the right thing by bringing it up with him.
It was pretty weird, because I’d been randomly bitching about the company policies, and it had nothing to do with him. (He was really upset. He also talked to his therapist who pointed out that “not everything is about you”.) But i did end up with official HR advice from a large corporation with a well developed HR branch that it’s appropriate to discuss potential ethical issues directly, as a first step.
@HeyHomie is waaaayyy off base here. As the others have said, “Hire a lawyer” is not legal advice. Your outlining the options to your client is closer to legal advice than what your boss did.
Oh, no, we’re fine. She’s very kind, very nice, very invested in my success as an employee (FWIW, this is only my 4th week on the job). I’m not looking for a reason to get her canned. I just felt, when I wrote the OP, that she’d stepped out of line. But this thread has made me rethink that.
You are a good person who wants the best for your clients. You are also new to the job and are super paranoid about making mistakes. You’ve really done the rational thing here, you saw something and wondered if it was really something. Then when you were told that it wasn’t really something, it was a different thing, you thought about it instead of getting defensive and offended.
You are going to make a big difference for your clients.
Although some might say filing a frivolous ethics complaint against your boss is a career mistake. Yes, legally your boss can’t retaliate against those sort of things. Doesn’t mean they have to help your career either.
I feel there’s a significant difference between advising a person on what options are available and advising a person on which of those options they should choose.