Did RUSH lift from Paul McCartney and Wings?

Cafe Society
1

This came up a year or two (or three ago) in a thread which I’m not going to waste hamsters on finding.

I forget what the topic was, but someone mentioned that whenever they heard the opening guitar riff to “Limelight” by the Canadian rock trio RUSH, it made them think of the band.

I opined that they must be younger than me, because it always made me think of Paul McCartney and Wings.

They (and/or someone else) were baffled by that, so I explained. Nothing came of it.

Sir Paul & Co. did a song a few decades ago entitled “Band on the Run” which contains a guitar riff that seems to have been later replicated in the opening of the song “Limelight” by RUSH (which appeared on the “Moving Pictures” album).

If you’ve got (or are familiar with) the track of BotR, the lyrics show up here:

cue “Limelight” riff with an alternate ending

I know, sound clips would help.

My question is: Did RUSH lift this riff on purpose, or is it a coincidence? I am thinking that it’s an homage, since the themes of the two songs are similar: the lack of privacy and the overdose of attention brought on by fame. RUSH cast this in Shakespearian terms

While PM&W cast the same concept in terms of a band of criminals on the run from the law.

**My GQ: **So, is it just me, or not? Are there simply two coincidences (the riff and the theme) or is there a connection?

(Mods: I realize this might go better in Cafe Society, but I am interested in a factual answer, if there is one…move if you wish, though)

2

Are these the riffs you’re talking about? (I hope this lines up ok)
LIMELIGHT

----------------------------------------
---------------4—4----2- ---------------
---------- -2- 4—4----2-----------------
------0-4-----2—2----0-----------------
-0-4-----------------4---------------------

BAND ON THE RUN

----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------7-7-5----------5--------5--------------------------
-----------0-2-3—5-5-3----------3--------3--------------------------------
-0-1-3---------------------3-5---------3-5-----------------------------------

I don’t really see much similarity except that they both employ walk-ups on the bass strings. The keys are different and the intervals are different. They’re kinda-sorta similar in approach but they’re really not close enough to decide that Rush consciously lifted anything. A lot of popular music uses the same kinds of riffs and melodic ideas, and sometimes things are lifted unconsciously (I think that anyone who writes songs will tell you they’ve accidentally stolen something here and there), but I don’t even see that going on in this case.

In short, I think you’re reading too much into it. Others’ milage may vary, of course.

3

Moved to CS.

-xash
General Questions Moderator

4

I would sincerely doubt it. Though many musical influences come forth in Rush’s songs.

<Rush Geek Mode - ON>
During the period in which ‘Limelight’ was written (1980-1981) Rush was in the habit of noodling around during their sound checks while on tour. That is, when they’d come into a hall they’d just start improvising (provided they were confident in their ability to play the songs of that night’s show). Each of these jam sessions were recorded and saved by either Geddy or Alex.

Flash forward to the next recording session. The three were in the habit of splitting up: Peart locked in a room working on lyrics without any music and Alex and Geddy in a small studio listening to those recorded jam sessions to pull out ideas for songs. Geddy and Alex would begin working out song structures (i.e. key, chord progression, middle eighth, what-have-you everything except instrumental solos which always came last) without actually knowing what the lyrics would be. When they had a several songs ready and Peart had several lyrics ready they would swap and try to figure out which lyrics went with which songs. Then some back and forth would occur until all sides were satisfied.

So, while it’s possible there’s some McCartney influence in a specific riff it’s more likely to have simply been the result of some idle noodling around in some empty arena.
<Rush Geek Mode - OFF>

5

Comparisons were inevitable once Geddy Lee insisted that his untalented wife join them on tour to play keyboards and sing backup vocals.

6

I’m very familiar with both the songs in question, and I highly doubt there was any plagiarism, deliberate or otherwise. I’m not even sure that part of “Band On the Run” is exclusively a guitar; it sounds like there are several brass instruments playing as well. Besides, that section of the Wing’s song is a transition, not an opening riff. How many guitarists listen to a musical bridge with brass instruments and think “This would make a great opening guitar riff”?
Not saying none ever has. Maybe I don’t know anything.

7

Linda is in Michael J. Fox, but she wants to get out!

Just to be clear, I am not accusing anyone of plagiarism, nor anything unseemly…just a possible reference.

I understand tablature notation, but for physiological reasons don’t play guitar anymore, so DtC’s notation doesn’t quite answer my question (it formatted okay, though). For one thing, I have only relative pitch sense when it comes to sound, so that if you play the same riff in the key of C one day and the key of G the next, I’m not going to notice the difference. Playing them back to back would sound different, but separating them by a few hours/days/weeks/months would obscure their differences.

So, the intrinsic pitch changes sound the same (even if it’s a different key and different notes), and the rhythmic structure sounds the same, as well.

Either that, or I’m remembering this all wronglylike.

For the record: NOT accusing anyone of plagiarism. Just a potential reference, because the riff plus the theme of the songs in question seemed a double coincidence.

8

I like both songs and am very familiar with Rush tunes, and I can say that I never heard the Band on the Run and was reminded of Limelight.

I also never really thought of the two songs expressing similar concepts, but perhaps they do. I just gave up long ago on trying to find any insightful meaning in McCartney lyrics.

9

I also know the two songs well, and don’t see a connection.

<slight hijack>

one total ripoff I recently discovered is Christopher Cross totally steals the hook for Sailing from Poco’s Crazy Love, where it is less prominent in the mix.

10

I’m reminded of when I first heard Hysteria by Def Leppard, and thought for sure that they had ripped off Goodbye Blue Sky by Pink Floyd. Nobody else particularly bought it, and in retrospect, I think the similarities are probably no more than chance.

11

Hey, these things happen. Think hard sometime about the inherent similarities in Suzanne Vega’s ‘Luka’ and the Archies ‘Sugar Sugar’.

"My name is Luka’ da da DAH da da dah “Ah honey honey”.

I’m telling you it works.

12

I have a pretty good ear for music, and I pick up on this pretty quickly, IMHO. If this happens at all to musicians, it seems the opening chords can mimick other songs - especially their own as they rearrange a few notes and recycle a tune.

This time, I don’t see it, however. BUT! My friends love the instrumental “La Villa Strangiato”, but it irks me that Rush lifted a classical piece. Toward the end, the song breaks into the unmistakeable music always played on Bugs Bunny when the Goofy Gophers got into trouble. (You know, the very polite gophers that usually wind up causing havoc in a food processing plant. People mistake them for Chip and Dale.) Anyhow, I believe this very robotic, mechanical sounding piece, IIRC, is called Perpetual Motion. It is probably public domain by now, but still…it irks me Rush resorted to lifting ANY piece of work.

On the other hand, I do not fault Rush for lifting Simon and Garfield lyrics (with permission, I assume) in the Spirit of Radio about “the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls…” - Jinx

13

I can see why you’d think so, but I bet only a handful would notice. If anyone’s curious, the songs charted relatively close together, but Poco’s entered the charts first. Not sure of the actual release dates.

14

If I remember my Rush lore correctly, La Villa is about nightmares and cartoons. The lifting is intentional. As to The Spirit of Radio, I am not sure if they had to obtain permission for the use of the Simon and Garfunkel lyrics. The lyrics of the song are slightly different, but were done as a riff on the orginal tune: “The words of the profits were written on the concert halls”

Rush has always been influenced by the music of the times. They take what they hear from others and add their own creativity to the mix. Sometimes with great results and sometimes with only so-so results. This is the band that played with adding rap to rock music, when the walls between the genres were still firmly in place.

I do doubt that Paul McCartney and Wings would be considered a major influence. In “Traveling Music”, Peart seems to not have had much respect for the Beatles. His preference was for the music that influenced the Beatles.

15

Well…they were making a Simon and Garfunkel reference when they said “For the words of the prophets were written on the studio wall…Concert Hall!” I don’t think that it was “lifted.”

16

To be fair, S&G ripped off “coo-coo-ka-choo” from I Am the Walrus. Wasn’t Paul McCartney in that band too?

17

Well…me, too. I’ve never heard BotR remind me of Limelight, but Limelight sure seemed to reference BotR.

:smiley:

The reference you’re thinking of is “Powerhouse” by Raymond Scott. There are three clips of this piece if you click on “Sounds.”

RUSH has never been shy about lifting the riff for La Villa Strangiato from this work. As howye noted, the lifting is intentional on this piece. Alex’s son was watching old Warner Brothers’ cartoons one day, and Alex incorporated the music into LVS…at least, so I’ve heard. They’ve done the same thing with lyrical themes (Ayn Rand stuff for “Anthem” as well as “2112”, Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s Kublai Khan for “Xanadu”, etc.).

Again, I’m not faulting them for lifting the riff, it just sounds very similar (despite the key change–which I’ll take Dio’s word for, since I haven’t listened to them next to each other), and since the lyrical theme seems to be similar (the inescapable attention of fame), I thought there might be a link.

Either there is, or there isn’t. Maybe I should go to their website and shoot an email. If I do, and get a response, I’ll let you know here…

18

I’ve gone back to listen to both, and I think the similarity lies in the fact that “Limelight” makes a 6 note climb up the scale, and “Band on the Run” makes a 7 note climb up the scale. I think you could make an equally valid claim regarding the similarities between these songs and the theme song to “Three’s Company.”

I think the lyrical similarities between “Limelight” and “Band on the Run” are equal to the similarities between “Band on the Run” and “Three’s Company.” For example:

Band on the Run: “Stuck inside these four walls, locked inside forever. Never seeing no one nice again like you mama, you mama, you.”

Three’s Company: “Come and knock on our door. We’ve been waiting for you where the kisses are hers and hers and his, three’s company too!”

19

I don’t think I’ve ever heard Limbaugh using Paul McCartney. He does use The Pretenders “My City Was Gone” as bumper music, though. :wink:

20

I always thought the opening acoustic guitar riff on Metallica’s “Fade to Black” sounded similar to “Goodbye Blue Sky”. The note progression goes B-F#-G-F#-B-F#-G-F#… in “Goodbye Blue Sky.” “Fade to Black” goes B-F#-G-F#-B-F#-D-F#-A-F#-G-F#-A-F#-D-F#…. If you listen to enough music you will inevitably find similarities between two pieces every now and then. The same can be said for literature/novels and movies.