Did the 9-11 Attacks "Work?"

Great Debates
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[quote=“Mr.Miskatonic, post:119, topic:503088”]

I have used 911myths, others have used debunking911. Neither of these is part of Popular Mechanics. This would indicate to me that you have not even looked at the links we gave and are not interested in anything.

***But those sites had nothing about who they are or where their info comes from. ***

[QUOTE]

Like the Kennedy assasination, we will never get the real story, and people will begin to say “this is all so OLD”.

Bull.
***Someone already said those very words on this board, where do you think I got it?

Or are you actually trying to convince me we have the real story of the JFK assasination.

Bull!

Got pics of that? I’ve seen pic of civilian workers and first responders moving airplane pieces - likely to make room for emergency vehicles.

[QUOTE]

There were highway cameras that could have seen the flight path.
[/QUTOE]

Where. Tell us where they are.
***Mounted along the highways, for traffic control. Every large city has them. ***

You should roll your eyes! your C in C sat motionless staring into space for 7 minutes while the country he swore to protect is under attack, and he don’t even know from whom or where! (or did he?)

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Quite possibly, he’d been warned Al Qaeda was up to something. But him staring into space like an idiot probably had a lot to do with the fact that he is an idiot.

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:confused:

They do mention and link to, among other sources, the New York times and the Port Authority several times.

And the reason why I go to debunking 9/11 is that it is just the best location so far where the best replies and evidence reported though the years has been collected.

Incidentally your point that “the pentagon hole was small” does remain a bullshit point.

History of dealing with 9/11 truthers showed me that you are basing that on one of 2 photos, either an image of one of the internal Pentagon walls that was hit last, or a close up of the second floor. The deniers just love to post that picture that has water or foam under it, what deniers do not show you is the images when they stopped trowing water or foam for a moment, the full view showed that the first floor was the one that had the full impact and it was a big hole.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/

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The objective was to turn a band of fundamentalist misfits into ‘holy warriors’. What better way to do this than to elicit a war with the ‘infidels’? War militarized what were before merely terrorists criminals. They became what they had always preclaimed themselves as being but never actually walked the walked as - soldiers. It legitimised their fight. Jidad = holy war, after all.

As such, 9/11 work a treat. (*Worked for the Bush administration too in delaying the GFC until they were out of office… but I digress).

This is in fact why one cannot win a [conventional] war against this kind of ideology, as fighting the ‘metaphysical’ (psychological) with physical weaponry is futile. Death does not peturb them - obviously, given they’re perfectly willing to offer up their prepubescent progeny for early 72 virgin/28 pearly boy candidacy. In fact, thus imbues them with even more legitimacy through martyrdom. Moreover, one side having to fight a propaganda war under the Geneva Convention standard makes it even more of a Penrose triangle.

Short of expunging the lot of 'em, Nazi style, you cannot attrite them into submission. As hackneyed as it’s beginning to sound of late, the battle must be fought with their hearts and minds, not with their IEDs and suicide bombers. If there is to be victory sans the former extreme scenario prevailing, that is.
How To Win a Cosmic War -Reza Asian

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What the hell does that mean? They source their data, which is more than 99% of the crap that truthers come up with. Did you even read them?!

Where. Tell us where they are. You made the claim. You prove it.

You are assuming much. Show me some diagrams from 9/11/01 where such cameras were placed. Traffic cameras really aren’t everywhere in the US and in 2001 there were not as many.

I already covered this: People don’t point their security cameras at other people’s buildings.

Plenty of steel buildings have failed due to fire, just not so dramatically.

Furthermore, no steel building ever had a jumbo jet slam into it at high speed with a full load of fuel. Or in WTC7’s case - had another burning building fall on it and then had raging fires burn unfought for 6 hours.

They were designed to withstand the impact of a 707, lost in fog, going at low speed. Not a fully fuel loaded 737 at top speed. Besides, they did survive the impact - it was the fire that killed.

Oh, and they were just fine otherwise, right?

What would he have been able to do had he known? I may not be thrilled with his actions, but it is hardly proof of anything sinister, especially in light of the complete lack of evidence for anything else beyond 19 terrorists hijacking four airplanes and slamming three of them into major buildings.

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I guess like the Kennedy assasination, it’s easier to believe what we are told no matter how impossible, and this gave us an extra bonus. A common enemy.

Ever wonder why not even Bush was very serious about catching OBL? No, I’ll bet you don’t. Sleep well.

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Of course I have; it’s obvious. Bush and friends as I said never cared about the people who died on 9-11, and only saw the attack as a chance to get laws they wanted passed and to attack Iraq. OBL was simply a useful bogeyman; they had no motive to try to catch him.

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There was nothing impossible about 9/11 or the JFK assassination. Just because you cranked up your personal incredulity does not make things ‘impossible’.

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It is beyond me why anyone would debate a truther. Conspiracy theorists are one of the few problems in life that really do go away when you pretend they don’t exist.
The 9-11 attacks were spectacularly successful in the short term, because America and the West over-reacted. Militant Islam became a world power overnight. That is what Militant Islam wanted, and that is what they got. They extracted blood and coin from their mortal enemies. They enticed their enemies to invade the Middle East. In their fevered dreams, they thought military invasion by the west could only result in the various schisms in Islam uniting to repel the One True Threat.

Now it is ten years later, and nobody has won. Islam did not unite, and Osama has been in a cave ever since September 12, 2001. May he rot there, pondering why none of his grander hopes have been realized.

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For many years, OBL has been claiming and demanding many things, one of them being his goal to economically bankrupt America. Al-Jazzeera has him saying this as early as 2004. Here is one CNN report among many concerning those comments.

By the time it’s all said and done, America’s true dollars spent on the military are about 1.5 trillion annually if this site is correct. Don’t know anything about the credibility of that site, but is this info is accurate, is that kind of spending really necessary when we outspend the next 15 nations combined with at least 12 of them being our allies? How come Europe doesn’t feel the need to spend so much on their military? Is it because they know they can always count on the USA to come to their rescue?

It took over 200 years for America to have a debt ratio of 33% to GDP, and in less than ten years it has doubled to 66%.

While America’s economic woes are too numerous to mention, if the the 9/11 attacks hadn’t of happened, America may have saved itself from two costly wars.

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Fair enough. You forgot to mention however, that the attacks gave the Republicans another excuse to bash Clinton, even though they accused him of being “obsessed” with OBL while the considered Hussein to be the real threat.

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The only thing that is impossible is beating sense through the granite wall of certainty that makes up the belief system of a truther such as yourself. The subject has been debated to death here, and in ever case the truthers have fled, since their line of BS gets little real purchase in these parts. Feel free to start a new thread on the subject if you enjoy humiliation, but hijacking a thread (freaking zombie) thread that is really isn’t about what you are trying to ‘debate’ isn’t going to get much traction.

Not that such a debate would be profitable for anyone, really, since ‘debating’ a truther is like debating any religious fanatic or CT nutcase…they simply dismiss any evidence, and keep circling back to the same tired bullshit that has already been disproved. Since you also seem to be a JFK CTer as well, I’d say that you perfectly fit the mold of hundreds of shinning eyed fanatics that came before you, and you’d probably fair no better than they did. Your dismissal of the Popular Mechanics debunking so cavalierly is a good indication of how such a ‘debate’ would progress…

Have you? Have you ever really thought about it, or did you simply make up your mind that you have the answer and tune out anything else? My guess is that you and Bush are actually more alike than you think you are, since you assuming you have the answers, when in fact you are as wrong as he was.

Sleep well in your ignorance, and just keep holding your breath that this big story is going to break someday and vindicate your faith. Just like the JFK nutters still cling to their tattered and ridiculous theories, waiting hopefully for the revelations that will make all the stoic years of keeping the faith worth it. As a fall back, you can always console yourself that it’s all part of a government cover up, and that just about everyone except you and the other faithful are in on it, or that we are all just sheple who don’t know any better, content in our obvious ignorance.

Was watching one of the debunking shows on 9/11 on NATGEO over the weekend, and it was funny to see some of the Loose Change idiots back peddling a bit, while other of the faithful were confidently asserting that by ‘next year’ (this was in 2007 by the blurb on the screen) the ‘truth’ would be out, and people would finally see the light. I figured that you’ll still be singing the same tune 20 years from now, still confident that ‘the truth’ will come out sometime. It would be sad, except that the ignorance of the CTer is corrosive, and it seeps into the greater public, spreading ignorance and lies until a distressingly large portion of the ignorant public believes the piles of horseshit. It doesn’t help that idiot movie producers further the ignorance by movies like JFK…and, I have no doubt that at some point some idiot will produce a 9/11 Truth movie as well, that will have the same levels of conjecture, lies and false assertions…

-XT

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The side that was hit also required the pilot to dodge the least number of obstacles. Plus there’s a VFW navigational aid that’s almost directly in line with the impact site.

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There indeed were warnings but they consisted of possible attacks on government buildings and tourist icons. Nothing specific.

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Given that Oswald couldn’t possibly have fired all the shots AT kennedy, and certainly not the “kill shot”, I take offense at being called a "nutter’. Even congress agreed in 1978 that there was ample evidence for a conspiracy. Are you suggesting conspiracies NEVER happen?

As for 9-11, there are too many coincidences and impossible scenarios for any thinking person to think the government got the explaination right. Funny how you trust the government when they tell you what you want to hear. Even funnier are all the excuses people make for Bush’s “seven minutes of quiet contemplation” after hearing the country was under attack. I wonder if Clinton would have gotten the same courtesy?

The “Loose Change” people conceeded some points, like reasonable people will, but certainly didn’t conceed them all.

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This thread isn’t about the Kennedys. Do you really need to be wrong about two well documented historical events at once?

In case anybody cares, would you mind listing the coincidences rather than just making repeated references to them?

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I listed them, and was attacked for it. The side of the Pentagon that was hit was one. the fact that only those buildings owned by Silverstein fell that day was another.

Why did the Bin laden family get to FLY out of the country when the rest of us were grounded?

Marvin Bush being with the security comany for the WTC (his contract ending Sept 10 2001) was pretty interesting

And the big one was the fact that the planes that might have prtotected the Pentagon were out to sea doing “war game scenarios” was pretty big too.

But of course, none of that REALLY happened did it?

138

I didn’t see that.

I’ll admit that’s a coincidence.

That isn’t. That’s just geography.

What do you think the security company was going to do in the event the building was hit by planes?

Only if you think it’s unusual for the military to practice.

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I think it’s pretty convenient that they were practicing that very scenario, and were thus unavailable when it actually happened

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Anither interesting fact…