This isn’t true. It has been studied in Amsterdam.This work was published earlier this year.
TDLR: suicidality among transmen was unaffected by types of treatment received. Mastectomy wasn’t found to be protective against suicide.
To answer the OP, things are much better today for those who don’t fit neatly into their cis gender assignments than they used to be. The proof is the enormous number of people coming out, or even exploring their gender identity. That used to be pretty much a social death sentence.
I have a 40-something friend who, with the aid of a lot of therapy, decided to identify as a non-gender-conforming man. (Having been assigned male at birth, but never having been comfortable with that.) He tells me he’s in a funny place, because most of the other people exploring their gender identity are either older adults whose spouse has died, and who are just now exploring the option of publicly identifying as the gender they always felt most pulled to, and 20-somethings who are jumping right in with no fear.
I think in a few more years we will all know some trans people, just as in the 80s people suddenly discovered that they knew a few gay people. Because it’s enough safer to “come out” that trans people are doing it.
What about all the people like my friend, who didn’t dare tell his parents how he felt, but didn’t “desist”, and has finally come out at age 40? Or his friends in their 70s who are finally coming out (and often transitioning) now that their spouse is deceased?
It does make me question that. In fact, I suspect that if I were 20 I would identify as non-binary. But I’ve spent nearly 6 decades living as a gender-non-conforming woman, so I think I’ll continue doing that.
Yes, and I think it’s a wonderful thing. Gatekeeping is often very destructive.
Well, it doesn’t have anything to do with sexual identity, but it’s not all that straightforward. It’s a choice, with tradeoffs.
I’m pretty sure this is false. When I was in my late 20s I looked into having breast reduction surgery due to physical discomfort caused by my large breasts. I lost interest in it when I learned that it would mean I couldn’t nurse. At that point, I planned to have kids in the near future, and decided I could put up with the discomfort a few more years.
Maybe it’s just a chance that you can’t nurse, but I don’t think so. I think breast reduction surgery (unlike breast enhancement surgery) damages a lot of the vascular tissue and prevent the breasts from ever working as milk-providers.
Breast reduction surgery does usually leave you with nipples that are sensitive to touch, but my SIL had it done and lost all sensation in one nipple. So there’s a risk of losing that, as well.
Also… I my understanding is that “top surgery” to “remove” the breasts of transmen usually spares the nipple.
This article from 2013 (which investigated some side issue of whether obese patients needed to lose weight prior to top-surgery) was “A retrospective review of 145 consecutive patients who underwent mastectomy with free nipple graft was conducted.” That “free nipple graft” means they kept their nipples and areolas.
This reference says that a risk of transmasculine top surgery is that you might lose nipple sensation (or lose the nipple, or die from anesthesia) but it seems clear that the intent is to preserve a cosmetically and sexually functioning nipple:
Oh – and I did have kids, and I was able to nurse them. And after that, my breasts were enough softer that I’ve been able to … well, not exactly bind them, but keep them under control enough that they no long cause me pain. So I’m quite happy with my decision. 
But if I need to have them cut up due to breast cancer or something, I would opt to have them removed outright. Other than when nursing, I’ve never really liked having big boobs, and I’d be delighted to have no boobs and not have to deal with bras, and rashes from where sweat gathers, and…
Looks like the odds are better now than when I was exploring the question.
Conclusions
Techniques that preserve the column of subareolar parenchyma appear to have a greater likelihood of successful breastfeeding. The preservation of the column of subareolar parenchyma should be disclosed to women prior to surgery. Guidelines on the best breast reduction techniques to be used in women of child bearing years may be advantageous to ensure women have the greatest potential for successful breastfeeding after breast reduction surgery.
If all we’re seeing now is earlier detection of true cases that used to be hidden, we should be seeing a concomitant increase in older people coming out as trans now.The evidence doesn’t support that this is happening. The article I posted earlier explains this.
If the ppl you know were dysphoric as teens but were able to make it all the way to their 40s and 70s before transitioning, this undermines the idea that gender dysphoria must be treated as a medical urgency or else. Putting teenagers on hormones and encouraging them to get elective surgeries is bound to create problems for people who mistakenly believe their body is wrong. Girls are particularly susceptible to thinking their bodies are wrong, so society is playing with fire by making this idea so accessible and pervasive.
I find it useful to listen to detransitioners. If anyone knows how easy it is to be misdiagnosed, it is they. I came across this video just the other day.
fwiw, I have personally talked to two “detransitioners”. Both support easier access to transition. And I don’t think “people who suffered decades of gender disphoria, but didn’t actually kill themselves” is a great example of why people ought to be kept away from those gates.
I’m pretty sure you haven’t done any research recently.
The impact of breast reduction surgery on breastfeeding: Systematic review of observational studies
The percentage of breastfeeding success among studies was highly variable. However, when analyzed by the preservation of the column of parenchyma from the nipple areola complex to the chest wall (subareolar parenchyma), a clear pattern emerged. The median breastfeeding success was 4% (interquartile range (IQR) 0–38%) for techniques with no preservation, compared to 75% (IQR 37–100%) for techniques with partial preservation and 100% (IQR 75–100%) for techniques with full preservation.
Techniques that preserve the column of subareolar parenchyma appear to have a greater likelihood of successful breastfeeding. The preservation of the column of subareolar parenchyma should be disclosed to women prior to surgery. Guidelines on the best breast reduction techniques to be used in women of child bearing years may be advantageous to ensure women have the greatest potential for successful breastfeeding after breast reduction surgery.
What about all the people like my friend, who didn’t dare tell his parents how he felt, but didn’t “desist”, and has finally come out at age 40? Or his friends in their 70s who are finally coming out (and often transitioning) now that their spouse is deceased?
YWTF is saying we need science to inform us, so pleading with her to focus on your own personal anecdotes doesn’t refute her point one bit. It lends strength to her point. The internet is swimming in anecdotes, both in support of medical/surgical treatments and against them. We need longitudinal studies to find the signal in all the noise.
FWIW, it wasn’t until I started reading personal anecdotes from the desist crowd that I started to understand how gender ideology (just like all ideologies) has its fair share of harmful excesses. I don’t think these people’s experiences should necessarily outweigh all the positive experiences, but they are evidence that caution is certainly warranted when it comes to permanent “fixes” to dysphoria. Some people seem to think if someone doesn’t go all in on this stuff, it means they aren’t progressive enough. When really the default attitude of every rational person should be to not go all in on anything that isn’t evidence-based.
Perhaps i am mistaken, but i read ywtf as opposing any transitioning until we have longitudinal studies. (And of course, if that’s the mainstream practice, we won’t have anyone to study except people who take extreme measures to go outside of the mainstream, and they might not be the best predictors of everyone else.)
Until we get those longitudinal studies, i mostly favor letting people do what they want to. With fair warning that no one knows for sure… And yes, i believe that anecdotes can be informative. They are where every study begins.
But i don’t want to continue hijacking this thread away from “what has changed? And is it better or worse for trans people?” So i apologize for my part in the hijack, and I’m going to stick to that going forward.
I strenuously disagree.
I think you are misunderstanding her. We’ve been largely focused on gender affirmative medical and surgical treatments on kids in this discussion. That’s what she has been talking about. Not merely the process one undertakes when they inform everyone to honor their new pronouns, new name, and new style of dress/grooming. Plenty of folks transition without doing a darn thing to their bodies.
I never said that. In response to the OP’s question about whether transgender people are being treated better today, I framed my answer around their medical care. There is a dearth of scientific evidence that the informed consent model of care is superior to a model more in line with how we treat other mental health conditions (and please note, this is not the same thing as asserting informed consent is bad…I’m just highly skeptical it’s good). It would be irresponsible to let this go unsaid.
Yes, i think there’s a great deal of truth in that.
In countries with such strong taboos against homosexuality that it’s unthinkable, men commonly hold hands while walking down the street. Because no one thinks, “oooh, he might be gay”. These are the same places where actually admitting to being gay might be reason for execution.
But living in a closet takes a toll on people.
I’m sorry, how is that a study of supportive vs nonsupportive trans teenage suicide rates?
When I said the specific thing hadn’t been studied, I meant the specific thing. Your study doesn’t cover what monstro asked for specifically. So your “isn’t true” is irrelevant bullshit.
You can, of course, cite the specific part of the paper that says this.
My opinion as a transgender woman should mean more in this discussion, as I have actual experience with this. And I was talking about SURGERY, not hormones. You are right, it is increasingly not difficult to get hormones. Which is how it should be.
The fact that gatekeeping standards have dropped is a wonderful thing! You shouldn’t need to go through intensive therapy just to gain access to cross-sex hormones. Or be afraid you have to ty to force yourself into whatever conception of “transgenderism” the therapist/doctor believes justifies it. Because it has been my experience that the majority of doctors and therapists don’t really understand it themselves. I have had to teach them as they tend to be ignorant of our issues.
People go on HRT for a lot of different reasons, and all of them valid. You keep talking about data, but I don’t really care about whatever stats you can pull out, I only care about what is best for transgender and gender non-conforming people.
Not entirely. There are a lot of new people on the ‘anti’ side due to the greater visibility and the more radical changes we’ve seen recently.
I was dysphoric as a teen and have made it to my 30’s before transitioning, this is true. But this is after surviving two separate suicide attempts, and my self-medicating with alcohol which left me with liver damage, blood clots, and seizures and has almost killed me many times over. So yes, I was able to make it this far. But at the rate I was going, I wouldn’t have made it to 40.
I know quite a number of detransitioners myself, they did it because of reasons like they can’t afford to continue transitioning, or the social isolation brought by society rejecting them, or their family disowning them, or they can’t pass as well as they need to and it causes them distress. Few detransitioners do it because transitioning wasn’t the right decision, usually it was the right decision, but other factors prevent them from continuing.
Modhat: I am temporarily shutting this thread down to review it.
On review this thread is too off rails to continue. It will remain closed.
We issued a Topic Ban to YWTF
YWTF is banned from Transgender threads. They have made a habit of derailing threads on Transgenderism.
In the GD rules for almost a year now is this:
So better to close a train wreck in this case.
Also this from the rules: