Fair enough, Georgie gets bonus points for his book title.
Eh, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. You’re looking at versatility, I’m focusing on excellence. You’re 100% right that Van Basten had almost no defensive qualities. Thing is, how in the hell would he have developed any, playing for the well-funded and hence well-staffed Ajax team since age 15, and then later for AC Milan, the team that has enough quality on the bench to field 2 perhaps 3 Serie A teams simultaneously? To put it another way, I don’t blame Marco for being a full-on striker, and I don’t blame any of his trainers for not making him try out other positions on the pitch (although truth be told, he did play midfield positions when necessary, early on in his career at Ajax).
At the end of the day, there is no “best player”, at least not on an objective level. We might be agreeing on Diego here, but that’s just because no Brazilians have popped in yet.
It is more then just versitility but what a player brings to the team and the game as a whole. Best is just a more complete player and that I mean he is a more dangerous player. Best is more likely to score or cause someone else to score then Van Basten is. Again, he is the more dangerous player which, in football, means he is the better player.
I remember seeing Van Basten marked out it by Paul McGrath in the '88 championships (but for that dodgy goal by Wim Kieft we were through). Also, Van Basten played with some amazing teams whereas Best had 2 years with a great team. His destruction of the previously unbeaten Benfica (twice in 2 years) is considered some of the best football ever player. And while I do agree that it is all subjective I would note that Pele, Maradonna and Esuebio all consider Best to be the greatest footballer in the world (other then themselves of course).
I grew up in Manchester, and some ten years after Best’s retirement there was still graffiti saying “BEST IS GOD”. Someone kept touching up the paint.
Best and van Basten would both be on my All-Time XI - doesn’t that just beg for its own thread? I think I’ll start it - but Maradona would possibly wind up on the bench.
The first one is good, but not amazing; the decidedly mediocre Enrico Chiesa made almost exactly the same shot for Samp in Serie A in either '94 or '95, I think. Chiesa’s was more impressive, if anything, coming as it did at the end of a 45-yard run.
But don’t forget how Pele rallied his squad from 4-1 down at half to a resounding “Victory” on a team that had an American, Slyvester Stallone, in the net and an aging Michael Caine on the pitch as well.
And if I recall correctly, he scored at least 3 goals on bicycle kicks!
I’ll let you experienced fans argue about the relative merits of players. (I live in the US, OK? I don’t get to watch that much soccer/football.) I have a different question, more in keeping with the soap opera nature of Maradona’s life.
The article refers to his ex-wife, the mother of his two daughters. This can only be Claudia, right? Did she finally divorce him? The last I heard, he wouldn’t agree to a divorce because he had signed iron-clad papers early in their marriage that gave her a huge portion of his assets. They were, however, living apart and cordially despised each other. Did their lawyers finally sort it all out?
Well, I’m guess I’m not going to understand this. but he seems like a nice man, albeit not a living God regardless of any religions that may have sprung up in his honor.
The Punkyova, all I could find was a Dutch article saying Maradona’s wife filed for divorce in March of 2003, applying for full custody of the two daughters. Chances are she got that, too, as Diego spent most of his time in rehab in Cuba.
I don’t know anything about clauses that would grant the ex-wife huge sums of money in case of a divorce, but I’d say standard practice in this business is the opposite: lawyers make sure that the millions the star players make are kept out of the joint estate, rather than in.
If thery were married in Argentina, and I think they were, Argentina’s laws apply.
Therefore “marriage contracts” are void. To male it simple everything they both won during all those years they were married is divided, equally, between them. Those assests they borught inton the marriege they can keep to themselves.
The law strongly regulate marrige and testaments, the capacity of the persons to dispose of their rights is almost nonexistant. For example, last wills are almost unheard in Argentina, becuase 4/5 of your assets obligatory goes to your inmediate family.
In conlcussion Maradona is screwed.
Incidentally, I heard he isn’t that rich anymore. I heard rumours that he was considering inititiate a bankrupcy process.-
The divorce hasn’t gone through yet (she’llget what she’s looking for, IMO )
Brady was better than Keane. It’s all well and good Keane coming back now, we really needed him back when Kerr was first appointed. Holland and Zinedine Kilbane just didn’t cut the mustard in the last two group games.
I know nothing about the divorce but it sounds interesting. Maradonna was the ultimate case of poor boy made good who was then exploited by those around him and his own foibles etc, etc.
Back to the Football. Yes, yes start the world XI thread!
George Best was shit? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Seriously, stop.
Liam Brady better then Keane. Different players from different generations. Keane is a box-to-box midfielder which suits the international game. Brady had a sweet left foot and liked to sit back and direct play. Brady was very, very inconsistent for Ireland and his game suited the languid pace of Serie A. I think Brady had more talent but I think Keane would destroy Brady in a game. As an example, Figo is a very similar player to Brady and Keane mostly neutralized him in the last WC qualifiers. Anyways, Keane is back because he wants to manage Ireland some day. He is a cute whore.
I don’t care how talented he was, the fact he blew it all away makes him a shit player in my book. His ego got the better of him, and he was far too self centered a player IMO.
In fairness, Keane hasn’t played the box-to-box for several years now. He’s doing the dirty work clearing from defence to the wings now and has been since before the 2002 world Cup build-up.
Claudia and Diego have been together since they were both very young teenagers. She came from the same ghetto, and his mother hand picked her as a quiet, shy, gentle girl. Even then, Diego had clearly phenomenal skill, and his mother is a very shrewd woman. She wanted to make sure that he hooked up with someone like Claudia, rather than a more sophisticated woman who would be after his money, and be a significant rival to said mother. The alleged agreement was signed around this time, at the insistance of Claudia’s family. I don’t know what legal force it might have, given their ages. It was, however, before he had lawyers to handle his finances.
They didn’t marry until many years later, IIRC, after both of their daughters were born. My recollection is that they did marry in Argentina, and if Estilicon is right, then whatever he may have signed doesn’t matter, at least as far as whatever assets he has in Argentina. I wonder whether he has/had other assets in Europe?
Finally, I have seen footage of the Hand of God, and all I can say is that he should be ashamed of himself. However, subsequent behavior has shown that he seems to have missed out on whatever allows most humans to feel shame.
Oh, I don’t doubt it. He was a phenomenally skilled player. But on that first goal, he cheated. Every game is played by the rules. He had the skill to win fair and square, but he didn’t, he won by cheating. When confronted, he basically said that because he is skilled, rules don’t apply to him. He cheated, and he should be ashamed.
TP, the “Hand of God” goal is a much debated one, especially in England for obvious reasons. Yeah, Diego cheated, and got away with it. Maybe it’s a combination of the fact that I understand that any player will break the rules if it’s to his advantage and the fact that the goal is so notorious, but I don’t blame him for it so much. Yes, he plays coy when confronted, and calls it “the Hand of God”. But then again, lots of players have gotten yellow cards for playing a hand ball in similar situations. It’s a combination of sheer opportunism and perhaps a quick reflex, but it happens - most of the times it’s caught, and sometimes it’s not. It’s just that in this instance, it was at such a vital point in such an important game.
The Dutch are still pissed off over Holzenbein tumbling over in the penalty box in the 1974 final - a whole nation’s convinced that Holzenbein committed what the Germans so elegantly call a “Schwalbe” (a swallow): he played theatrics, and got an undeserved penalty. I’ll be fair and say that it could have gone either way. No clear 100% foul was committed, but no 100% theatrics can be deduced either. But “we” are still enraged at this decision, 30 years down the line.
Likewise, the English will forever blame Diego Maradona for the “Hand of God”, an incident which would have been long forgotten if he’d gotten caught and booked for. He cheated, but he doesn’t deserve the scorn for it he so often gets, IMHO.
MC, that link was referenced earlier on in this thread.
