IMHO, the main reason the fight over political correctness is so fierce is because both sides do not even agree on what PC means, nor do they recognize that there is good PC and bad PC.
“Good PC” entails the following:
Treating people with respect, refraining from racist, sexist or other slurs (no N-word, C-word, B-word, or a variety of other epithets abbreviated by a letter.) Most Americans, perhaps 70%, whether liberal or conservative, would agree that referring to Arab Muslims as “diaper heads” is exceedingly rude; same for calling Asians “chinks” or any of a hundred other slurs one could invent. In other words, simple courtesy and respect; don’t be a jerk.
But the reason the battle over PC is so intense is that when conservatives say they oppose PC, liberals think it means they oppose good PC, and when liberals support PC, conservatives think it means they support bad PC. The two sides are therefore talking past each other.
To be sure, there is a minority of conservatives that thinks that insulting people with the N-word (or other slurs) is great and good, and there are a minority of liberals who actually endorse the extreme PC listed above in the examples of bad PC. But by and large, both sides are in agreement that good PC is good and bad PC is bad.
(There are times, though, when one’s good PC is another’s bad PC; many liberals think that referring to someone by their preferred gender pronoun is simply good respect and courtesy, but some conservatives think it is gaslighting and bad PC because the individual in question who claims to be a woman still has an Adam’s apple, a male face, male appearance, facial hair, etc.)
I didn’t click on all your links because life is short, but they seem to fall into three categories.
Trolling. Like that idiotic video where some poor man’s Stephen Crowder is harassing a bunch of university students by claiming he is a Chinese woman. I won’t watch the whole thing but this is as dumb as those old Leno videos but not as funny. Most students just wanted to get away.
The typical right wing tactic of finding some random crazy person and pretending they represent a mainstream view.
You misinterpreting the article. The Huffpost writer was not objecting to the word too in general. There was no complaint about a sentence like “We were too late to catch the opening act.” It was simply a complaint about how expectations for women differ from expectations for men.
Gish galloping is a crap form of argument. So is strawmanning and nut-picking. Do better.
Just picking The NY Times article as a for instance, I wouldn’t call a school leveraging a zero-tolerance policy against a minority employee, totally blind to context, an example of “political correctness,” good or bad. I suppose you would be the one representing it as such in this case.
"Seattle elementary school renames Easter eggs as “spring spheres” - according to your link, probably never happened, they never determined where it supposedly took place, and wtf was she handing out Easter eggs to students for in the first place? The guy who she told it to, Dori Munson, is a laughable local media personality with as much credibility here as Rush Limbaugh.
The problem with the policy is that it treats the N-word itself as so terribly bad a word that even if spoken in the context of *opposing *the N-word, it is still a word that should not be said.
Firstly, I disagree that everyone would even agree on “Good PC”. When Trump calls people “dogs” or “low IQ” (specifically black people when he does this), or “disgusting animals” for example, his supporters will often handwave it and just say he’s not politically correct. So for them, anything goes, as long as the speaker is on their side.
Secondly, I think the real issue with PC is tangential to “good” and “bad” PC. In my native UK, “political correctness gone MAD” is a phrase a lot of people like to use, and they can get very animated about. And yet, when you ask for examples of PCGM, you are likely to be given examples that are misconceptions (like Christmas being renamed “winterval” or blackouts being renamed brown outs). Or you might just get back a couple of examples that are outright false.
The media jumps all over any story of purported PC because it sells newspapers but there’s virtually never any there there.
It’s actually interesting from a psychology POV that we have this PC moral panic. ISTM to be related to the phenomena of “health and safety gone mad” (where crazy, overprotective rules have supposedly thrown common sense out of the window) and crazy rules from “Brussels” (where belief in myths like bendy bananas being banned or kippers needing to be sold a certain way were a major contributor to the Brexit vote)
The last time a so-called “friend” tried arguing with me about how bad the left was based upon these types of situations, he described an incident which, after 2 seconds of googling, was shown to have actually occurred in New Zealand in 2014. When I asked where he had come up with this ever-so-relevant cite (meaning, what Fox News-type propaganda station had spoonfed it to him), he refused to answer.
Velocity, you’re being played. You provided a list of very doubtful incidents which you obviously didn’t find on your own, all intended to show how bad the PC left is. Do you not think that being un-PC is a more oppressive problem?
Of course there is a difference between nuts and reason. Two problems with PC in general is when the concept is used as a hypocritical and dishonest cudgel the second being when that cudgel is institutionalized and cognitive dissonance becomes a willful and gladly accepted malady.
It’s a long game of making taboo language and expression in order to control thought. Are some words so bad they cannot be expressed? No. No they aren’t. Words aren’t magical incantations. They are just words. If folks spent more time on popular culture and less time in the ivory culture offense wouldn’t come so easy. Not that much of the offense is legit.
If these hypothetical conservatives want liberals to care what they think is and isn’t “Bad PC”, maybe they shouldn’t include blatant transphobia as their justification for it. Even if it’s in the fine print.
I have opposed PC, in its extreme forms, right here at this message-board, and was therefore disposed to be in agreement here. However OP’s examples are flawed. (To prove my credentials as a homophobic misanthrope, I thought it absurd that cake decorators should be obligated to use their artistic talents in ways they do not wish.)
First, let’s please distinguish extremists from the mainstream. There are Americans who might say “I’m feelin ornery, boys. I’m grabbing my guns and blades, gonna rape me some diaper-head wimmen and kill me some niggers. Y’all comin with?” but 99% of American racists would disapprove of this. Similarly 99% of “liberals” might disapprove of some of the extreme PC silliness.
Some American men might barge into a women’s bathroom and insist on their right to be there. However 99% of “liberals” would find this absurd —*** in fact it’s a good bet the invasive males in this example are right-wing homophobes putting on a show to make a point!***
I “took one for the team” and clicked several of OP’s links. I will comment only on those I clicked, or whose nature was obvious just from the URL.
The word “too” is sexist; it “cuts down women”
Women experience social interactions from a very different perspective than men. This is simply a Fact (Google for a 20th-century dictionary if “Fact” is a meaningless word in post-rational America.) I thought the article you linked helps shed light on that Fact. OP - Perhaps you should re-read it with a more open mind.
Gamer suspended for listing his home town as “Fort Gay” even though that is the name of his home town
And I couldn’t use ‘Specialist’ as part of my email address because filters see ‘Cialis.’ Is this thread about obscure dweebisms, or do we want to discuss real American politics? @ OP - Do you think the MS nerd knew Fort Gay was a real place? (BTW, are you a seattletimes subscriber? If not, how did you even view this site with its horrid popping and blurring?)
Blah blah blah
Nope. Clicking seattletimes once was enough.
As I said, I clicked on the thread disposed to support OP’s thesis. But until he can provide better examples, I’ll withhold support.
The issue is not that there are extremists, idiots, and trolls. The issue is that a whole lot of people writhe with anger at the idea that maybe they should show more empathy and consideration for those who have been shoved to the margins, abused, insulted, and/or debased by them and people just like them. So angry, that they have invented a mythical problem called political correctness, and found or created bizarre examples of folks trying hard to be fair and understanding but ending up doing something ridiculous instead.
Oh noes, someone has made a silly mistake trying to be newly considerate! Let’s all sneer!
IMHO I do think that there is a lot of overlap there with people that react the same to science reports that go counter to what they believe or expect that they are doing a dumb thing. More than once I have found examples in the SDMB of OPs like the one here that just put some allegedly stupid science research that “must” be sneered when in reality is not in the way the extremists paint it to be.
To me, good PC is the actions and results that happen when someone is referred to by the labels that they choose. I.e. not calling the disabled handicapped, or using the term African American instead of Negroes.
Bad PC is when the basic concept above is used beyond simple civility, and is taken to absurd lengths, and unaware/unsuspecting, or just skeptical people are then castigated for not being on board. For example, that article about using the words “genius”, “brilliant”, etc… is a perfect example of something that’s extreme, and castigating anyone for using the word “brilliant” to describe someone is patently stupid. People need to have a bit thicker skin if a list of historical male academics causes them issues- historically men were the ones who did that stuff. It wasn’t fair, but it’s the way it was, and no amount of PC sugarcoating and mollycoddling is going to change that. Same for calling someone a genius or referring to their brilliance.
So what? If OP didn’t know Americans are stupid, he needs to catch up.
) @ OP - Please tell us what, if anything, you think this silly video teaches us? Have you seen what average Republicans say when a comedian asks a Gotcha on cameras? It’s orders of magnitude more hilarious than this silly video.