Dinner. Not a conversion. Comprede? (long)

[Hi_Neighbor]

@Ferret_Herder

I’ve been going to my stylist for years and I haven’t the faintest idea what her religion is, nor have I mentioned my own belief system. (I’m pretty happy with that state of affairs, too.) We talk about family, pets, cooking, vacations, jobs, that kind of thing. I can’t recall off the top of my head if we’ve talked politics.

In response to this, as well as others who claim that it wasn’t surprising that RedFury wasn’t aware of her religious views before this date:

“Oh no, you see, he (guy) must have done something wrong and the suffering was his penance to God in order to be saved” she retorts, with a smile that would make a clam envious."

The OP made it seem that she said this line so casually. In fact, he didn’t act shocked at all - her religious nature exposed in this sentence was nothing to be alarmed about. His reaction was one not of dismay, but anger. If this quote was the first indication of her religious views, especially after months, the OP would have been more surprised than anything. This gives me the impression that he knew of it beforehand.

Also, if the woman is so quick to mention God, one would think that in previous conversations, she would have done so then as well. I mean, they weren’t even discussing religion or God, and she inserted the reference into their dialogue. This has never happened before? In months and months and numerous other conversations? Highly unlikely.

[Blaster_Master]

@Hi_Neighbor

In response to this, as well as others who claim that it wasn’t surprising that RedFury wasn’t aware of her religious views before this date:

“Oh no, you see, he (guy) must have done something wrong and the suffering was his penance to God in order to be saved” she retorts, with a smile that would make a clam envious."

Actually, in tying together this response with my previous post, the first reference was actually the use of the word miraculous. I have never heard an atheist describe anything as miraculous, except maybe in reference to sports, but then again, there’s TONS of random religious references in sports that have been completely divorced from their meaning outside like a Hail Mary or the Immaculate Reception. Other common phrases I don’t hear atheists say are “thank God” and “bless you”. Strangely enough, it seems that atheists will use religious curses at the same frequency though, like “Jesus Christ!”

[villa]

@Blaster_Master

Other common phrases I don’t hear atheists say are “thank God” and “bless you”.

I don’t know many people who don’t say “bless you” when someone sneezes. And that includes people who I know for a fact are atheists.

Then, given your previous comment…

@Blaster Master

Even for atheists, I have little trouble identifying them in casual conversation either. A number of the atheists that I know I initially guessed were so based upon their reactions to common occurences, like someone sneezing and getting a “God bless you” as a response. Of course, I don’t say that either so maybe it’s just one of those things I notice that others don’t.

I think you are presuming you can identify people from casual conversation, and are getting it totally wrong in many situations. I pretty much guarantee you would have no concept as to my religious views without asking me what my religious views were. And if you did, you still might have no concept as to them.

[Jack_Batty]

Here’s the thing. I’ve dated Christian women. And that generally isn’t an issue. Mostly because it isn’t brought up as a topic of conversation. And even if I were out with a woman and she mentioned something about being at church or praying to God or something, it wouldn’t mean an automatic plan-B escape route for me. But if one of them went off on “God punished my friend’s friend by having him get shot in the neck,” … then, yeah … religion would become a wedge.

[Hi_Neighbor]

@Blaster_Master

Actually, in tying together this response with my previous post, the first reference was actually the use of the word miraculous. I have never heard an atheist describe anything as miraculous, except maybe in reference to sports, but then again, there’s TONS of random religious references in sports that have been completely divorced from their meaning outside like a Hail Mary or the Immaculate Reception. Other common phrases I don’t hear atheists say are “thank God” and “bless you”. Strangely enough, it seems that atheists will use religious curses at the same frequency though, like “Jesus Christ!”

I’m an atheist, pretty stringent at that, and I say “thank God,” “bless you” after someone sneezes, and I’ve described certain situations or happenings as “miracles” (although, most of the time it’s in a sarcastic manner, i.e. “Frank is doing the dishes? It’s a miracle!”).

Either way, as someone mentioned before, these are either figures of speech or sayings that have been incorporated into our culture and do not necessarily warrant a literal derivation.

A player from my favorite sports team scores the winning basket, I say, “Oh, thank God! It’s a miracle!” and I’m a firm believer in Christ? If **RedFury **were present, he’d probably question my wording and then go rant about it on some message board.

It was **RedFury **that took her “miracle” quote, dissected it, and looked for a deeper meaning (just to be a prick, I assume). However, her response to this (“Oh no, you see, he must have done something wrong and the suffering was his penance to God in order to be saved”) is not usual. You have to be pretty wrapped up in religion to bust out a line like that.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

I often say “bless you” when someone sneezes, although I’ll try to say “gesundheit” if I bother to think about it. Once or twice I’ve thrown “a te souhait” out there as well, but generally not among strangers. I don’t literally mean for God to bless them, and it does make more sense to wish good health for someone who just sneezed.

When someone wishes for me to have a “blessed day,” I’ll usually just say, “You too!” instead of “There is no god you dumb fucker.”

[VinylTurnip]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

Doesn’t he look like a red hot Ben Bernanke?

More of a barbate Hank Paulson, based on memories I’ve struggled to lose.

[Blaster_Master]

@villa

I think you are presuming you can identify people from casual conversation, and are getting it totally wrong in many situations. I pretty much guarantee you would have no concept as to my religious views without asking me what my religious views were. And if you did, you still might have no concept as to them.

I’m not saying it’s necessarily something I do actively and look out for those things but, it’s stuff that paints a mental image. I’m not saying I’m necessarily 100% accurate on any of my deductions about people’s religious views either. The whole point is, that there’s plenty of subtle hints, especially if someone is more religious than most, as the woman described in the OP sounds.

@Hi_Neighbor

I’m an atheist, pretty stringent at that, and I say “thank God,” “bless you” after someone sneezes, and I’ve described certain situations or happenings as “miracles” (although, most of the time it’s in a sarcastic manner, i.e. “Frank is doing the dishes? It’s a miracle!”).

Either way, as someone mentioned before, these are either figures of speech or sayings that have been incorporated into our culture and do not necessarily warrant a literal derivation.

Again, I never said it was 100%, simply that I’d noticed that none of the atheists I know said those things. Still, as you say, they’re figures of speech, so they’re more something I’d notice if they’re lacking than if they’re present, in which case the only person I can recall who didn’t say them and wasn’t an atheist was someone who had religious reasons for not saying them.

A player from my favorite sports team scores the winning basket, I say, “Oh, thank God! It’s a miracle!” and I’m a firm believer in Christ? If **RedFury **were present, he’d probably question my wording and then go rant about it on some message board.

It was **RedFury **that took her “miracle” quote, dissected it, and looked for a deeper meaning (just to be a prick, I assume). However, her response to this (“Oh no, you see, he must have done something wrong and the suffering was his penance to God in order to be saved”) is not usual. You have to be pretty wrapped up in religion to bust out a line like that.

Again, I don’t think the “it was punishment” angle is that unusual. It seems to me like a common explanation amongst Christians to the whole “Why does God let good things happen to bad people question?” It may be something that seems unusual to someone who isn’t religious, since it’s probably not something that gets discussed outside of a religious context, but it really isn’t all that much different from a version of karma or “the goldren rule”, except that some people believe that God directly punishes people.

[mswas]

We’re glad you were able to tell us about what a wonderful man you were and doing your best to explain to us why this woman deserves your hate. :rolleyes:

[Lord_Ashtar]

@Jack_Batty

Here’s the thing. I’ve dated Christian women. And that generally isn’t an issue. Mostly because it isn’t brought up as a topic of conversation. And even if I were out with a woman and she mentioned something about being at church or praying to God or something, it wouldn’t mean an automatic plan-B escape route for me. But if one of them went off on “God punished my friend’s friend by having him get shot in the neck,” … then, yeah … religion would become a wedge.

Perhaps, but you’re a more reasonable person than RedFury. Based on what he’s posted on this board, I doubt he’d even be able to get it up if he thought she had any sort of theistic tendencies.

[mswas]

RedFury think she is batshit insane because she is a Christian, and he HATES Christians with a fiery passion. The rest is just flourish.

[Jodi]

I think it’s a pretty good story of a Very Bad Date (though, like Nava, if you still live in Central America I don’t know why you’d think a date for 8 p.m. would actually start at 8 p.m.). You had me up to the point where you were surpassingly rude to her, unloading on her “willful ignorance” and “lecturing her” on the need to “educate” herself.

So you aren’t not the only party to this particular date who now has a good story to tell of going out with a stupid, rude, crazy person, so I guess that’s some small silver lining for both of you.

[E-Sabbath]

RedFury is CodeMonkey?

[RedFury]

Appreciate the responses both positive and negative. Since it would be impossible to answer individually, I’ll try to clarify some points for those trying to crucify me.

I live in a very religious Spanish speaking, large island in the Caribbean, along with Central and South America, the last remaining bastions of the erstwhile all-mighty RCC. So much so that two Cardinals from the region – one Argentinian and the other a Brazilian IIRC – were close in the running when the last Pope was chosen. I believe that is a first but I doubt it will be a last. I mention this as a bit of additional background and to illustrate that I deal with religious people on a daily basis with nary a problem. In fact, my very sister is quite devout herself and we get along just dandy for we’ve had any number of conversations on the issue and have found common ground with her own definition of God: “He is found in good deeds, regardless of whether one believes in Him or not.” Fine by me if that is what it takes for us to get along. However, she certainly doesn’t attempt to convert me – or her youngest, 21, who is actually at that stage where he’s recently (two years or so) ‘found atheism’ and is ready to pounce with all the arguments we already know, on anyone who tries to change him. I like the kid a lot but have advised him to tone it down on more than one occasion as that attitude, here or elsewhere, is not going to make his life any easier. Quite the contrary.

Me, I simply go with the flow and keep my mouth shut unless directly questioned or witnessed to – which really doesn’t happen that often. So, no, I honestly don’t feel I’m being oppressed or anything close to it. Perhaps it wasn’t clear from the OP but this rant was directed at this particular person, and yes, by default, at whatever congregation and/or offshoot of fundy Christianity she belongs to. She did tell me the name of it, but it was a bit odd and don’t recall. Perhaps someone here can tell by the mere fact that they hold two hour long services? I’d never heard of such a thing. In the mainstream anyway.

As for the evening I described and my intentions and so forth, it was what it was and I think I gave a fairly accurate description of the events over the roughly three hour date – in as much as one can do such a thing without writing a diary for there was actually more batshit crazy stuff having to do with divine healing. Which wasn’t the main point anyway. It was her “in my face” attitude for the extent of the date that I found so off-putting in case some of you missed it with your knee-jerk reactions about either your dislike of me as a poster or your defense of her warped beliefs.

As for thinking with my other head, at 52 years old, sorry to ‘disappoint’ but I don’t go around dipping my wick randomly. Quite the opposite really; though I can’t deny that beautiful women get more than a passing glance from me. But window shopping is as far as it goes as it appears that everyone around me has gotten very young all of a sudden and I am quite aware of my own limitations. Might be lots of things and likely more than a few of those not very good, but a Sugar Daddy? Nope, not gonna happen. For instance the lady in question here is 43 and as I said, a mother of four. Certainly not runway material but just as certainly in the right age group for me. So to those that think I went looking to get laid I can only say that I know of a lot of easier ways what with the myriad of bars, discos and pubs here that are simply not my cup of java anymore. Am I looking for a long term partner far whatever remains of my life? Why yes, yes I am. Am I in any sort of rush to find one? Why no, I am not. Which might explain why this is the third woman I go out with within the past couple of years – hell, I don’t think I remember where home-plate’s located anymore. Though I do hope it’s like riding a bike.

So why did I ask this woman out and why hadn’t religion been discussed before? Well, again, read the fuckin’ OP and forget for one second your personals feelings about me. The answers are right there for all to see. Including the fact that some of you know me a lot better than she did – hell, read Otto’s post, as he says, how’s that for irony?

Lastly (or not), if any of you agree with her that getting a bullet to the neck has some divine implications because science is now able to keep from dying, well, what can I say? How’s about if you’re a bachelor, you hop on a plane and ask her out yourselves? I’ll even introduce you to her and wish for a happy ending. How you deal with her hatred of gays and her views on suffering will then be your problem (or not), but certainly not mine.

Guess that makes me a Heathen Pimp on top of all else. :rolleyes:

Twice-divorced, she married very young, so her kids are no longer kids. Youngest is 17, eldest, I think she told me 24, married and with a baby. But the fact that they live at home and still rely on her as the provider would only shock those that don’t know Latin culture. Nothing bizarre about that. In fact, it’s the norm not the exception. Whether that’s good or bad is open to debate. I have my own opinion about it, but thats neither here nor there of the purpose of this thread. Getting the BK’s XL chicken sammies was the least of problems.

---

Nava, thanks, I’ll see if I can find it.

Hope all is well w/you.

[lieu]

@RedFury

Including the fact that some of you know me a lot better than she did – hell, read Otto’s post, as he says, how’s that for irony?

Huh? Am I missing something? Otto’s been banned for near a year now. Did you mean Ogre?

[RedFury]

@Jack_Batty

Here’s the thing. I’ve dated Christian women. And that generally isn’t an issue. Mostly because it isn’t brought up as a topic of conversation. And even if I were out with a woman and she mentioned something about being at church or praying to God or something, it wouldn’t mean an automatic plan-B escape route for me. But if one of them went off on “God punished my friend’s friend by having him get shot in the neck,” … then, yeah … religion would become a wedge.

On second reading. Yeah, what he said. Would that I could use words as sparingly to convey my meaning.

I’ll also add for clarity’s sake in my last post, that it’s three of the children that live at home. The married one has moved on.

---

Oh and Jodi? Fair play to your critique. Yes I was rude in the end and wrote as much, but the gay thing was the virtual straw that broke the camel’s back. For Og’s sake, I’d just watched “Milk” the night before!

As for being hopelessly on time, every fuckin’ time, I blame my Dad’s rigid upbringing of my sis and I. We both suffer from the same horrific defect.

[RedFury]

@lieu

Huh? Am I missing something? Otto’s been banned for near a year now. Did you mean Ogre?

Preview is your friend. :smack:

With my sincere apologies to Ogre I think I’ll go flagellate myself for a while.

[Irishman]

Redfury, I believe it went down exactly like you describe, and that your motivations were exactly as listed.

See, it’s happened to me, too. Well, not exactly that, but getting the weird religious shit right out of nowhere.

Met this young lady while judging a science fair. She sent me an email afterwards and asked me out. So at the restaurant, doing the “get to know you thing”, it was mentioned that I like Sci Fi. She commented that she collects unicorns, but she had this one picture that she didn’t display because it was Satanic. The date had a fair amount of conversation that went politely after that, a lot explaining my position as an atheist and humanist. Afterwards, I decided I didn’t think we were compatible and sent her an email response, again phrased as politely as I could. She replied back with a tirade about me being a Devil Worshipper. Which actually made me laugh, because I was trying my hardest to find a nice way to not hurt her feelings, and her response was a vicious attack on my character.

And I am telling him, almost simultaneously, that chicken and fish are not, regardless of whatever arguments he’d heard in favor before, related in any way to Kevin Bacon or each other.

[Freudian_Slit]

@eleanorigby

his paying for her kids’ dinner (WTF? When do these kids eat? How old are they? Does she have a sitter or is the 9 year old watching the younger ones? etc);

Actually, I thought this was odd, too. I’ve never heard of paying for a kids’ dinner on a date–unless they were on the date, too. Which would be odd for a first date. But if they’re not even there, it just sounds like she’s milking the guy for some free food.

@Enderw24

To which she replied “It’s a fucking figure of speech. Jesus Christ!”

Yeah, this I thought was odd. If someone said “It’s a miracle that ____ survived,” I’d just assume they meant that the person survived when it seemed they might die. Like all things considered, surviving that chimp attack in CT might be a fate worse than death, but if someone said it’s a miracle that the woman survived, I’d know what they meant.

Then again, this woman did mean something creepy, apparently.

[Blaster_Master]

@RedFury

Lastly (or not), if any of you agree with her that getting a bullet to the neck has some divine implications because science is now able to keep from dying, well, what can I say? How’s about if you’re a bachelor, you hop on a plane and ask her out yourselves? I’ll even introduce you to her and wish for a happy ending. How you deal with her hatred of gays and her views on suffering will then be your problem (or not), but certainly not mine.

Since I think this is directed at my point, since I don’t recall anyone else making mention of it, I want to respond to it. No one was defending her views as far as I could tell, least of all me. In fact, I specifically said I think she’s wrong. My point wasn’t to defend her beliefs, but simply to state that her belief is not terribly uncommon. Holding a belief that you happen to disagree with, in and of itself, doesn’t make her nuts. And, based on what you’ve said, it really doesn’t look like she’s nuts, just devout and socially inept.

I don’t get the whole passing off her problems on us here though.