Diogenes, a word about your behavior..

[eleanorigby]

@Gangster Octopus

How would this have gone over IRL?

saddad: We just lost our baby. [Crowd gathers to hear story of an obvioulsy sad and grieving man who relates the story as told in the OP]

Indiviudal #1: So sorry!

Individual #2: My deepest symathies**.

Dio: Yeah, sorry and all that, although it wasn’t really a baby now was it?

saddad: Excuse me?

Dio: Well, I mean you said your baby died and it completely got me to walk over here from over there, to listen to your story and it turns out it was reallly just some hardly realized hopes and a few cells. Serously, that was totally uncool of you. I feel so emotionally manipulated and I totally resent that. Call me when you lose a real child.

You dont’ know that. None of us do. Are we now to Pit him speculatively?
Anyone who wants a beer/iced tea or cookies can come over to my house. The rest of you enjoy yourselves…

[Walter_Windchill]

It turns out Dio does weigh more than a duck, and we’re at the “burn her anyway!” point in this farce, eleanor.

[Helen_s_Eidolon]

eleanor, since you seem to hold the same views and Dio hasn’t chosen to respond, maybe you could answer my post 156?

[mr.jp]

@Shagnasty

I have had a child die as well. This would be a real, actual, not fake child by Dio’s criteria. She died at 6 weeks old in my arms even though she checked out perfectly healthy when she was born. Hopefully that is the worst thing that ever happens to me and I will be scarred for life but even at the time, I knew that there could be something was. I had my three year old daughter around me all the time when Sophie was sick and I admit that I often thought, thank god it is the baby and not her. That is the way those things work in my mind. A miscarriage is horrible but not as bad as losing a newborn which isn’t as bad as losing a 10 year old. My next daughter was born about a month ago and my wife and I wouldn’t have taken a miscarriage with her well at all. Actually, it might have prompted a suicide or three but it worked out.

Sorry about this Shagnasty.

[holmes]

@eleanorigby

Yeah, I do. He’s a father–hell, he’s a person. And now I find my sympathies turning from the OP and those who have suffered losses like the OPs (even if some of them are a wee over the top with their vitriol) to Dio.

Wait, you’re telling me that Dio and I guess he can answer, would consider the miscarriage of a fetus the same as the death of full-term delivered baby? I don’t get that from what he posted in this thread, but I may be mistaken.

[Gangster_Octopus]

@eleanorigby

You dont’ know that. None of us do. Are we now to Pit him speculatively?
Anyone who wants a beer/iced tea or cookies can come over to my house. The rest of you enjoy yourselves…

Well, I guess my point is that if it something you wouldn’t do IRL then it almost certainly not something you should do on the board.

[Mtgman]

@Shagnasty

Diogenes seems to have some significant cognitive and emotional impairment either caused by or exacerbated by an obsession with the abortion issue.

And the education of children according to religious guidelines, and people who value their virginity, and people who talk on cell phones while they drive, and people willing to take extraordinary measures to protect those with extraordinary conditions(such as severe allergies to peanuts), and …

Enjoy,
Steven

[mr.jp]

@Gangster Octopus

How would this have gone over IRL?

saddad: We just lost our baby. [Crowd gathers to hear story of an obvioulsy sad and grieving man who relates the story as told in the OP]

Indiviudal #1: So sorry!

Individual #2: My deepest symathies**.

Dio: Yeah, sorry and all that, although it wasn’t really a baby now was it?

saddad: Excuse me?

Dio: Well, I mean you said your baby died and it completely got me to walk over here from over there, to listen to your story and it turns out it was reallly just some hardly realized hopes and a few cells. Serously, that was totally uncool of you. I feel so emotionally manipulated and I totally resent that. Call me when you lose a real child.

“Call me when you lose a real child.”

[The_Swan]

@Gangster Octopus

Well, I guess my point is that if it something you wouldn’t do IRL then it almost certainly not something you should do on the board.

I think that you’ve hit upon either the greatest strength, or the greatest weakness, associated with board use.

I liked your analogy, but I may be in the minority.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@The Swan

Where did you say that in the other thread? I took you to mean no such thing.

My mistake. In my second post of that thread, you’ll see that I posted that I was going to give an answer but had decided not to derail the thread anymore. Prior to that I had written a post trying to clarify that point but then I deleted it and replaced it with what’s there now. I’d forgotten I’d deleted it but I did post something similar in my first post of this thread.

I admit that my meaning in the initial post of the other thread is not clear. It was an off the cuff, scattershot and not entirely coherent response to the OP (which I didn’t know was going to blow up in my face), but his treatment of his wife was what was in my mind, even though there’s no way i can prove it now.

[mr.jp]

@Helen's Eidolon

Please explain to me what the difference is between losing a fetus at 12 weeks and finding out at 12 weeks into the (normal-appearing) pregnancy that the fetus stopped developing 10 weeks ago.

Well, first: The difference between losing a, say, 1 year old child is that you have grown more attached to this specific child. Seen it’s face, heard it laugh, etc.

For me there is no difference between the two instances you mention. But it’s a nice fact in getting out of the argument, with people who claim that a 12 weeks old fetus is as much a person as a 1 year old child.

[Walter_Windchill]

@Gangster Octopus

How would this have gone over IRL.

Of course, in real life, I think people would also be a bit taken aback by a stranger entering their midst with such a story.

[mr.jp]

sorry about the punctuation above. I don’t really know what the correct version is.

[The_Swan]

@Diogenes the Cynic

My mistake. In my second post of that thread, you’ll see that I posted that I was going to give an answer but had decided not to derail the thread anymore. Prior to that I had written a post trying to clarify that point but then I deleted it and replaced it with what’s there now. I’d forgotten I’d deleted it but I did post something similar in my first post of this thread.

I admit that my meaning in the initial post of the other thread is not clear. It was an off the cuff, scattershot and not entirely coherent response to the OP (which I didn’t know was going to blow up in my face), but his treatment of his wife was what was in my mind, even though there’s no way i can prove it now.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

[Helen_s_Eidolon]

@mr. jp

Well, first: The difference between losing a, say, 1 year old child is that you have grown more attached to this specific child. Seen it’s face, heard it laugh, etc.

For me there is no difference between the two instances you mention. But it’s a nice fact in getting out of the argument, with people who claim that a 12 weeks old fetus is as much a person as a 1 year old child.

You’ll notice that I didn’t claim that. You’ll also notice that Dio and eleanor claimed that there IS a difference between the two instances I mentioned.

[zagloba]

@eleanorigby

There was never an embryo, fetus, baby, child or anything.

It seems pretty clear from the report of the results of the ultrasound that there was no fetus. But an early embryo wouldn’t show up on the ultrasound, would it? If they found the yolk sac, seems like the embryo implanted, even though it stopped developing early on.

[Walter_Windchill]

Attempting to equate the two sort of undermines your purpose, because it shows that a miscarriage is really about disappointment, not about loss.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Helen's Eidolon

Please explain to me what the difference is between losing a fetus at 12 weeks and finding out at 12 weeks into the (normal-appearing) pregnancy that the fetus stopped developing 10 weeks ago.

I saw it as finding out that there never was a fetus in the first place.

[Helen_s_Eidolon]

Both are about loss. The loss of the child that was expected.

[The_Swan]

@mr. jp

For me there is no difference between the two instances you mention. But it’s a nice fact in getting out of the argument, with people who claim that a 12 weeks old fetus is as much a person as a 1 year old child.

Who said that? I’d love a cite.