Oh! Maybe that’s why you’re defending Diogenes! You did mention that you hadn’t read the original thread. Well, that’s what Diogenes did in that thread. That’s why we’re all angry about him! Now I bet this whole thing makes way more sense for you!
I’m still wondering how many of the self-righteous who are piling on really know what the Hell they’re talking about, when it comes to the subject of miscarriage and grief. Dio doesn’t need my defense, but I must say, some of the indignation expressed in this pitting is at least as over-the-top as any real or perceived offense.
Dio,
You son of a bitch. Your shot in MSPIMS as well as your equivocating here are sickening.
You’re one lousy motherfucker, you know that?
Fuck you, man. Just plain fuck you.
He didn’t say it wasn’t a human being. He said it wasn’t a baby.
If you honestly think that your own posts are something OTHER than a moral or ethical point of view, I’d like to know what you think they are.
I absolutely do, which is exactly my point. You have a moral and ethical point of view, and so do I. I acknowledge mine is one, you seem to think that you’re doing something else. If it helps, abandon the notion that there is any SHAME in having a moral and ethical point of view, and just respect the fact that other people might have slightly different ones, and discuss the details of things and their moral implications. It’s a lot more productive, I swear.
I think you would be surprised. The number of my close friends & relatives who have experienced a miscarriage was rather surprising to me.
A quick thought.
I’m no scientist nor do I play one on TV; thus I am not going to get into the whole “when does an embryo become a baby.”
OTOH, I am pro-choice – but only because I realize how much and how widespread the suffering is amongst the living. And I also realize that there’s a limit to the amount of people this planet can hold and nourish. However, ideally, I would love to see abortions all but gone. Education and effective birth control can or should get us there some day even if I’m not around to see it.
I got a woman pregnant in my younger years. I also convinced her to abort and paid for it. And cried like a baby while it was being done. It’s not once or ten times that I’ve thought back to that moment and wondered what that kid would have been like. For you see, I ended up marrying the girl, and she’s the Mother of my only son.
Sorry, Dio, while I usually agree with your politics, this is one time when I feel you were just a plain A-hole.
Well, my condolences to your friends, and I mean that sincerely. It is rather surprising how common it is, though, isn’t it? So common, in fact, that many women have 1st trimester miscarriages without even knowing. For surprisingly many more, that’s the only kind of pregnancy they’re ever going to have. And everything in between.
What if the baby is stillborn? Is one still allowed to grieve, since it was born, and all, but since the baby wasn’t truly alive, no one LOST anything, did they?
:rolleyes:
Right. And they all react in varying degrees, from relief to depression. So what’s your point?
I never said anyone wasn’t allowed to grieve, nor how much they could grieve, but by all means, continue to express these stupid strawman fallacies if it makes you feel good to do so.
You are of course correct, many fertilized eggs never make it. It’s still really shit to go from the young love high to the young love bleeding on the bathroom floor though. You insensitive clod.
(Well, first: The difference between losing a, say, 1 year old child is that you have grown more attached to this specific child. Seen it’s face, heard it laugh, etc.
For me there is no difference between the two instances you mention. But it’s a nice fact in getting out of the argument, with people who claim that a 12 weeks old fetus is as much a person as a 1 year old child.)
Who said what? That a 12 year old (semi)-fetus is as much a person is as much a person a 1 year old child? Isn’t that what most of the ruckus is about, whether the fetus is “a baby”?
-Yeah I know you didn’t claim that. I was just trying to set that point straight, since that was what diogenes was talking about in the part you quoted.
-Also, I should correct myself. I meant to say that there is no difference in the amount of grief I would expect from loss of two, respectively.
-I can’t pretend I speak for Diogenes obviously.
-Where did Diogenes answer your question? I really can’t find it.
What are the abortion views of Diogenes, by the way?
Oh just fuck off you fucking moron. Sitting there on Walter Windchills pompous beacon hill of superiority. You fucking dog-cock insensitive drooling twat. You brave iconoclast turd. Real people (humans) care and sympathise with other people (humans) because most people (humans) have at least a slice of empathy in their lives (with other humans). You on the other hand are the dripping pus from the back end of the donkey in a particularly enthusiastic Tijuana floor show.
Please ban me. I’m a troll. I’m a sock. I’m whatever I need to be to stop arguing with stupid assholes like this one, and Excalibre, and the rest of you.
Oh, you little dickens! All you need to stop arguing is a modicum of self-control. Unless someone’s got a gun to your head to make you post, in which case call the police.
Boy are you whiny.
Hmm, I haven’t been in the pit before. It sure is a stupid place.
Yeah, like nobody else has ever gotten into the spiral of trying to defend oneself here and explain oneself there and clarify this and correct that. It’s only me, right?
Walter it isn’t at all about you, and I’m sorry if you feel that way. It’s just that some things spring strong feelings and I guess that this is a thread where I have felt much.