I’m posting in General Questions because I believe there’s a factual answer, but of course the Mods may disagree.
I enjoy watching the program referenced in the title, but during the last episode Mike was at a shingle/shake factory in the NW US. He got to operate a shingle saw as well as a shake spliter. Then he got to cut the shakes to size on a bandsaw.
Not one of these machines had any guards or safety devices installed. The bandsaw had at least 12-14" of band exposed and no guards. The shingle saw requied the operator to snatch the shingles as they fell to the side, then cut the to correct width with another unguarded saw blade.
Has OSHA never visited any of these places? I can’t believe that they don’t require guards or safety equipment on these things.
Could it be because they are small operations and possibly exempt from OSHA regulation?
It could be that no one had ever complained to OSHA about the work conditions. Or that they removed the guards for the TV show. OSHA doesn’t usually get involved unless someone is injured or when the get a call from a disgruntled worker. You are not required to have them inspect a line before you start production. You are supposed to hire people who know the codes, but sometimes people don’t and just throw shit together.
[Norm Abram] Now before we use any power tools, let’s talk about shop safety.
Be sure to read, understand and follow all the safety rules that come with your power tools.
Knowing how to use your power tools safely will greatly reduce your risk of personal injury.
And remember this…There is no more important safety rule than to wear these…(tap,tap).safety galsses. [/Norm Abram]
Since this is GQ I will refrain from ranting about OSHA and how they actually hurt workers financially.
Although it is likely true that they do not visit small enterprise with less than a handful of employees,it is NOT true that they won’t drop in for a surprise visit on any business,small or large.
The inspector may not know his ass from a hole in the ground yet will issue citation without any practical consideration.In one OSHA visit of less than two hours $280,000 in fines were levied with a two week grace period for remediation,some of which would run to hundreds of thousands.The majority of the citations were issues the workers had no problem with and in some cases had precipitated.
I freely admit strong prejudice.As a teen my father griped about OSHA shutting down the steel mill where he was an engineer because they did not have REGULATION toilet seats.
I wonder if any of these places, that Mike has visited, received any OHSA visits as a result of the show?
I appreciate that many folks don’t like OSHA, and I’ve never had any dealings with them, but I’m told that in many cases they force a company to “clean up it’s act” with regards to worker safety.
So it sounds as if OHSA doesn’t just drive around and say “there’s a new company, let’s see what’s up”.
I don’t find it hard to believe at all. I’d just like to see a cite for whatever egregious incident Carson O’Genic is writing about.
It sounds like the sort of thing that gets Bcc’d into an endless chain of emails.
Remember the episode at the tannery? With that stapler machine? I love it when Mike gets actively frightened about a job and kind of stops laughing about it - I mean, did you see that machine? (Haven’t seen the shingle one yet.)
Carson O’Genic keeps his location to himself. Around here, though, OSHA does not make unsolicited inspections. OSHA barely has enough inspectors to check out the violations where there were formal complaints.
As for OSHA “shutting down” a steel plant over not having “REGULATION toilet seats,” that sounds rather :dubious: :dubious: :dubious:
There comes a time in every young man’s life when he has to face the fact that his father said some things that weren’t true. It’s not an easy moment.
I was pretty terrified by those jobs at the shingle plant. Especially the one where they are pushing a shingle through a band saw and holding the back of it to steady it. Not to mention the whole “sometimes the band breaks and flies everywhere, so watch out”.
At least the people working at speed were wearing heavy gloves. I wonder if they are steel mesh or something under the leather? I can only hope.
Different show, but on Holmes on Homes they have a disclaimer printed in the end credits that some equipment may have had their safety features altered or removed for filming purposes. It’s quite possible that this happens on some Dirty Jobs shows if Barzky can’t get a good shot.
No, but if you know company names, locations, dates or other details of the incidents you can search OSHA’s database of inspections, violations, and accidents - the detailed reports say how much the fines levied were.
You can also get some gory details on fatalities and other accidents they were called in on - this guy was cut in half (the long way) by a 56-inch saw.
A search for "toilet " in a text search mostly yielded citations for healthcare and education companies not providing adequate facilities to their customers - nothing specifically mentions “toilet seats.” The search only goes back to 1998 (probably the extent of their searchable online records) but you’d think if OSHA had closed a factory for this particular violation, they would have at least cited someone else on it.
You can’t search by fine amounts (that I could see), but searching through some of the fatalities in foundries the highest fine amount I found was just over $100,000 - I would think having a fatality on site would cost more than failing an inspection, but I didn’t do an exhaustive search. I would need more details of the alleged events (and the name of the shingle factory Mike was in - the Discovery website doesn’t mention it) to be able to state anything more conclusive.
I’ve worked around machinists at several different jobs. One place was very anal about guards on the machines, safety meetings and such. In the three years that I was there, two machinists lost fingers. Additional guards were added to some machines, and more safety meetings were held in response. I know of one machinist reprimanded for removing the chuck guard on a lathe while running a job in a 5C collet. *
At the other places, Nearly all the guards had either been removed or defeated. “Safety meeting” was a euphemism for the beer and BS session in the parking lot after quitting time on Fridays. The only injury I know of that happened in those shops was a guy’s leg getting skewered by a lift-truck fork…bad enough, but nothing to do with those missing guards.
My take is that the machines running with no guards demanded more respect than those that had been made “safe”. Also, dealing with the guards added steps and distractions to the workload. It would take a lot of data to prove it, but my take is that the guards and safety features can’t save a lax operator, and may in fact encourage laxness.
*A guard is used at the chuck of a lathe due to the protruding jaws. Collets eliminate the jaws and so the danger. A naked collet is much safer than a guarded chuck.
I wasn't quoting Google,that was personal work experience.I looked through the link provided by Big Norse but couldn't find anything,but it was around the time of the Oklahoma City bombings,so not on that site.
$280K was a number my boss gave me after the visit.$60K was in one of my departments.The tool room machinists had removed the lower half of the clamshell guard on a cold saw to make set ups.I pointed out to the inspector they were skilled people and the only users.He was courteous and professional throughout,but from a bit of conversation it was obvious he had zero actual user experience in the environments inspected.
The company was in an industrial park.I heard that OSHA visited everyone,so I doubt it was a disgruntled employee as impetus.
My father wasn't prone to hyperbole,and twenty years after his death I haven't reflected on any mis-truth.Still disagree with his politics.
The bit about toilet seats was when I learned about gap fronts.That happened in the 60s.I could be conflating "closing the mill " over the seats with the sum total of violations,since he griped about that as a perfect example of pointless government enforcement.