What if I was prepared? Batman loses. Also, no matter how well prepared you are it doesn’t mean you will win every or even all of your fights. One random event and Batman goes down, hard. Sherlock Holmes rarely fought and when he did you felt it was as a last resort. Batman is a joke and, imho, goes against the spirit of superheros. For example, let’s say that Batman interrupted a mob deal with a Tony Soprano. How long would it be before Bats is taken out and shot? About one issue or so.
DC’s got the Fourth Worlds’ “Gods”; Imperiex; The Spectre, Lords of Order and Chaos … a few others here and there, and honestly, only the Spectre and the Lords-of live up to the “nigh-omnipotent” classification. There’re also some actual mythologicals (Greek, Norse pantheons) that are mirrored in Marvel.
Whereas, across the border in Marvel land, intergalactic powerhouses grow on trees. We’ve got the Eternals as a parallel for Kirby’s New Gods in DC. We’ve got Galactus as the precursor of Imperiex. We’ve got Epoch and Eon, Ego the Living planet (much more powerful than DC’s sentient biosphere, Mogo), the Elders of the Universe (like the Champion, and the Gamesmaster); the Celestials; Eternity; Chaos; Order; The Beyonder; The Living Tribunal; whoever has the Infinity Gauntlet this week; … the list goes on and on.
I mean, crap, the MU has ‘Captain Universe’, and the ‘Phoenix’, in addition to the Infinity Gems, that can make Joe Schmoe an intergalactic powerhouse.
I actually like DC because it has less of those sorts of schmucks. We only see the Spectre with any regularity. And he only shows up when there’s some cosmically bad mojo happening… it’s not like the Marvel Universe… “Oh, Galactus stopped by. He wanted to borrow a cup of planetary lifeforce, but I told him we were out.”
To be fair, Gamera, DC’s non-cosmic heavyweights stand head and shoulders above Marvel’s. They’ve got Superman (a list of powers as long as my arm, all set to 11), Green Lantern (functionally omnipotent, if only he had the will and imagination), Flash (it’s hard to see how he *ever * loses against a non-speedster), and a host of folks almost as powerful as Superman, some with even more powers (like Martian Manhunter). Hell, even Batman has this “God of Winning” mojo that other naturals over at Marvel can’t compete with. When’s the last time you’ve heard "Captain America beats [Incredibly Powerful Being], if he’s prepared.
Then there’s the weird cosmic folks over at Vertigo land. The Endless, Lucifer, Swamp Thing and co, all of whom have appeared in mainstream DC titles, but they’ve been shipped off to Vertigo for a reason.
This is all moot, however, as any character can win any fight depending on how the writer writes it. Except for Batman. Sorry but I can’t suspend disbeliefe for this character. I could take him as could any one of you got lucky or hit him first. Terrible, terrible character who is vastly overrated.
I do agree though that Marvel has more cosmic level heavyweights. The list is fairly long and I think on a grand scale they would beat DC"s cosmic powers hands down (subject to my caveat above). Some of Marvel’s other characters though are fairly kick-arse. Phoenix would obliterate Superman as would Dr. Strange but most Marvel characters are too worried about having angst and things to pine about to be effective. It’s tough being a whiny teenager and a superhero you know.
I do hope Neil Gaimen takes over Thor as we could finally get a god of Thunder with a real attitude.
Menocchio pretty much answered this for me as I am talking about characters with their own books instead of gods that sometime appear in others’. Martian Manhunter, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Batman, and practically every character I’m familiar with from DC might as well be omnipotent and it grates on my nerves. I like my heroes to have limitations and I don’t mean in the sense that some glowing green rock will hurt you or you’re powerless against someone dressed up as a banana (I know that’s no longer the case but it’s still a good example).
I much prefer the singly powered mutants of the Marvel Universe or the obviously super-powered but still limited heroes like Spiderman.
Sure, Marvel has some of their own like Dr Strange, Thor, Hulk, etc, but their universe isn’t crawling with them.
I also really, really hate the ___(wo)man (Superman, Batman, etc) naming convention as I find it incredibly cheesy. Granted, Marvel has some too and I hate them too but, again, it’s not as endemic in their universe when compared to DC’s.
Marvel’s got very few heavy-hitters who are currently functioning super-heroes and most of the MU couldn’t even touch a DC hero, even with similar powers. For instance, Quicksilver or Northstar couldn’t come close to The Flash, not even on their best day.
So what’s left? Franklin Richards is six-years-old. Phoenix went evil and killed herself. Nate Grey killed himself. Cable has the Techno-Organic virus putting serious dampers on his powers. Legion and Proteus were both villains, and both are dead. Synch is dead. Magik is dead.
That leaves us with Thor, Doctor Strange, Namor (villain, hero, who the hell knows), the Hulk (ditto). Iron Man was put out of commission by Kitty Pryde, fer gawd’s sake. There’s some villains who in terms of raw power rank WAY up there, but usually have some sort of psychological problem (Graviton is a classic case) that stops them in the end.
I don’t see why Kitty Pryde wouldn’t be able to take out Iron Man. Doesn’t her ability shortcircuit electronics? Plus, the whole having something run you through thing has to be pretty damned painful.
Also, I didn’t mean to limit this to heroes. Include villains too… it’s just that I was running out of room in the title and “hero” fit whereas “character” wouldn’t’ve.
Aaaand, I don’t mean this to be a pissing contest between Marvel and DC so don’t feel compelled to compare the two (although you can if you want)… I just want to know the most powerful middleweights in each universe regardless of how powerful their DC/Marvel counterpart is.
Maybe that’s one of the reasons that DC continues to lag behind Marvel in terms of sales? Their characters don’t have much depth. Marvel heros tend to fight omnipotent beings a lot more frequently than DC do and they usually rely on brain as oppossed to brawn to win. Again, goes to depth of character.
Iron Man? I wouldn’t quite agree. What about Spiderman who seems to be able to handle armoured foes fairly well. Also, Kitty Pryde has a fairly cool power that would give most heros pause so I wouldn’t dismiss her so easilly. I can think of a few others:
I think Captain Marvel (of the Avengers) is more powerful than Ironman. She can become any form of light or even radiation (bye bye Supes) and can travel at light speed. Extremely powerful if used correctly.
Wonder Man: Superman-lite.
The Human Torch. His nova power is fairly cool
The Thing,
Power-Man
Doc. Samson: Hulk-lite
Rom
Qusar (Marvel’s Green Lantern). He could be as powerful as GL.
Maybe that’s one of the reasons that DC continues to lag behind Marvel in terms of sales? Their characters don’t have much depth. Marvel heros tend to fight omnipotent beings a lot more frequently than DC do and they usually rely on brain as oppossed to brawn to win. Again, goes to depth of character.
Iron Man? I wouldn’t quite agree. What about Spiderman who seems to be able to handle armoured foes fairly well. Also, Kitty Pryde has a fairly cool power that would give most heros pause so I wouldn’t dismiss her so easilly. I can think of a few others:
I think Captain Marvel (of the Avengers) is more powerful than Ironman. She can become any form of light or even radiation (bye bye Supes) and can travel at light speed. Extremely powerful if used correctly.
Wonder Man: Superman-lite.
The Human Torch. His nova power is fairly cool
The Thing,
Power-Man
Doc. Samson: Hulk-lite
Rom
Qusar (Marvel’s Green Lantern). He could be as powerful as GL.
Maybe that’s one of the reasons that DC continues to lag behind Marvel in terms of sales? Their characters don’t have much depth. Marvel heros tend to fight omnipotent beings a lot more frequently than DC do and they usually rely on brain as oppossed to brawn to win. Again, goes to depth of character.
Iron Man? I wouldn’t quite agree. What about Spiderman who seems to be able to handle armoured foes fairly well. Also, Kitty Pryde has a fairly cool power that would give most heros pause so I wouldn’t dismiss her so easilly. I can think of a few others:
I think Captain Marvel (of the Avengers) is more powerful than Ironman. She can become any form of light or even radiation (bye bye Supes) and can travel at light speed. Extremely powerful if used correctly.
Wonder Man: Superman-lite.
The Human Torch. His nova power is fairly cool
The Thing,
Power-Man
Doc. Samson: Hulk-lite
Rom
Qusar (Marvel’s Green Lantern). He could be as powerful as GL.
If Superman is out of the running, so should Thor and Captain (Shazam!) Marvel. If Dr. Fate is out, so should Dr. Strange… mostly because there’s no applicible ceiling on magic power levels-- especially among the ‘top’ magicians – and especially in the DCU… Merlin and Mxytpltk can warp time and space at a whim. Strange is by title, office and heirarchy “supreme,” so I’d rather leave him out of it.
That leaves the lower tiered DC/Marvel magicians like The Scarlet Witch, Tim “I’m not Harry Potter” Hunter and Dr. Druid, and the like – and some inspired technologists: Mr. Fantastic – Reed Richards. Ray Palmer – the Atom. Ant-Man – Henry Pym. Lex Luthor, as himself. Tony Stark – Iron Man. Peter parker – if he had, money a lab, resources… Dr. Victor Von Doom. John Henry Irons-- Steel. Professor Charles Xavier. T’Challa, the Black Panther (but only in his Vibrabium weave-cat suit, Kimoyo card, energy dagger and other recent toys).
I think we can safely include the rest of the Fantastic Four without exclusion (although the Thing is not as versatile as the others) and Sue Richards is a sudden contender. Namor is a good choice. Aquaman’s not as powerful but he can talk to fishes and we need to have someone else in DC’s top seven in the running, at least.
Captain (black chick) Marvel has potential, as does Quasar and Wonder Man.
What. The. FUCK. Is. The. Canuck. Doing. Here??? GethimoffthislistrightNOW.
Grrr.
I stand by Iron Man because Warren Ellis is writing him now, right? We expect spectacular things.
Ditto the return of super-science Batman now that Morrison’s back on JLA.
“Discounting the Near Omnipotent/Invincible, Who’s the Most Powerful DC & Marvel Hero?” is my question and since the ring is a deus ex machina, he’s obviously near-omnipotent and/or invincible and thus disqualified.
