Discounting the Near Omnipotent/Invincible, Who's the Most Powerful DC & Marvel Hero?

Way back in the 60’s, not long after the “new look” Batman was introduced, there was a story about Wonder Woman and (I think) Batgirl competing for Batman’s affections. This was, of course, as a result of some outside influence; they weren’t really “in love” with him. At one point in the story, Batman frees himself from Wonder Woman’s embrace and she marvels that he broke “even my Amazonian hold.”
Throughout most of her run, WW has been depicted as stronger than a normal human being, often several times so. When was she boosted to Superman-level strength?

Okay - back to the OP. Used to read comics a ton in the 70’s, not so much today. But I still know enough to be dangerous.

Isn’t this a fundamental issue of “weight” or “power” class? A previous poster stated it well - if the omnipotent types are the heavyweights, who is in the lower weight classes?

I would say that that OP is looking for superbeings who are:

  1. Human or derived from human - so no Superman, Thor, etc.

  2. Have a stated or obvious limit to their powers (excepting when an over-zealous writers get ahold of them) - so here, wouldn’t the Flash and GL not be counted, since their respective powers seem limitless?

  3. Magic - not sure how to address. Clearly folks like Dr. Strange are human, but the limits on his magic are unclear. I guess I would say that unless there is some way around that, he and his ilk would be the most likely contenders for most powerful in this weight class - unless access to omnipotent magical powers bumps them up to the Heavyweight class?

What other key criteria should be included?

When she was rebooted post-Crisis. Pre-Crisis WW wasn’t anywhere near as powerful as the one that’s running around now. Any normal human (and yes, that includes Batman) who went up against the current Wonder Woman in a real fight (not just a sparring match) would be a bloody smear on the sidewalk in about three seconds. She’s fast enough to keep pace with the Flash and strong enough to hurt Superman, with considerable fighting skill as well.

It was repeated ad nauseum back when Grant Morrison started on JLA (in the Wizard JLA special that came out around that time, they cite the “second-to-Superman” thing as official). I believe it’s also in the recently released DC Encyclopedia, but I’m not sure. Where’s Mockingbird? She’s the resident WW expert around here, IIRC.

I also agree that J’onn is more powerful than Superman, but I thought we were just talking about strength and not overall power. Otherwise, I’d take J’onn over just about any other, non-Spectre level DC Hero (the verbal smackdown he gives to Ultraman when he takes him on in Earth 2 pretty much sums up why).

As for, you know, the acutal topic of the thread: if Jean Grey is too powerful, how about the White Queen? She has considerable, but not overwhelming, mental powers, plus her diamond thing, which gives her versatility. Granted, she can’t use them at the same time, but hey.

Well, maybe I’ll be able to dig up a cite to that effect then. I’ve never heard anyone assert Wonder Woman as being stronger than Captain Marvel. J’onn - well, his raw physical strength varies from writer to writer as well, so I’m not willing to rule out there being a comment that Diana has physical strength surpassing J’onn’s.

I still think Diana falls in below the cutoff, though - she’s not nearly so invulnerable as Kal.

So WW, like Supes, has a problem with skilled fighters. Makes sense. When you are so strong and invulnerable, do you really need to learn how to fight. It’s why Karate Kid used to spar with Mon-El…and win. Mon-El had minimal fighting skill. He didn’t need it. KK was the universe’s best martial artist, bar none. Superior skill bested superior strength.

WW is more skilled than Superman, but less so than Batman. She has enough skill to ward off Batman and enough strength to stop him. She has enough strength to ward off Superman and enough skill to stop him.

However, I like Karate Kid as the answer to the question :slight_smile: Any non-powered being who can take on a Daxamite and fully be expected to win, without gadgets, every time, gets my vote.

Yeah, but didn’t Nemesis Kid kill Karate Kid…? Shouldn’t HE get your vote?

Oh, I’m a Val Armorr fan from way back. Loved the tiny dialogue between him and Robin in the Legion/Titans crossover recently, and I’d love to see him take on the Bat.

NERDS!

Heh, I’m one too… :smiley:

Would Magneto be disqualified as being “too powerful?” If he isn’t disqualified, I think that he would be at or near the top, since he supposedly has precise control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum which would provide him with an amazing array of powers ranging from flight to subtle manipulation of light (creating holographic illusions, possibly?) to instantly killing people to reshaping buildings or ships or whatever at will.

Would Magneto’s powers allow him to affect circulation? If so, he could kill both Superman and Thor in a heartbeat…literally.

Magneto has repeatedly demonstrated in the comics the ability to manipulate the iron in people’s blood to, for example, knock them out.

Magneto should definitely be considered in the nigh-omnipotent class, or no one belongs there.

That said, Thor’s an Asgardian and Superman’s a Kryptonian - whether they have iron in the blood is anyone’s guess.

Then again, there was a JLA issue where the League was dealing with Dr. Polaris during the Joker : Last Laugh storyline… #67? #68? I seem to recall Polaris’s amped up powers being able to fend off Superman. Ultimately, Plastic Man had to save the day.

At least twice.

In The Hikataea they fight over a criminal Diana has sworn to protect and Batman wants to take in. Bats loses and admits defeat.

In A League of One, Wonder Woman has to take out all of the JLA to save their lives. Batman figures out what’s going on, and confronts her, making sexist remarks during the fight to goad her into making a mistake, but it doesn’t work. He has specific defenses for her attacks, but they only prolong the fight without giving him a real chance to win. He as much as tells her he cannot stop her, but hoped to talk her out of it.

Her confrontation with Superman is interesting. She sucker punches him, which leaves him just a bit off balance and very surprised, but otherwise unharmed. She admits she stands no chance against him in a stand up fight, so she gives him something else to do. She had loaded the other guys into a rocket and fired them off into space, so Superman had to go save them, giving her time to do what she needed to do (fight a dragon).

The biggest difference in power levels between Superman and Wonder Woman, besides her lack of breath and vision powers, is that she has relatively little invulnerability–she can be harmed by bullets or arrows. She does have those nifty magical bracelets to deflect projectiles, energy, and magical/mystical attacks, which if used properly can protect her from things Superman would be vulnerable to, but the physical vulnerability could be exploited.

I’ve never bought the idea that Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman could take Superman due to their powers being magical/supernatural. Regardless of the source of the power, when they hit him, they hit him with a fist, not with magic. The source of Superman’s powers is yellow solar radiation, but when he hits a bad guy, he ain’t hitting him with the sun.