Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit

…says it all, really. This is the sum total of their argument.

Are you fucking stupid?

The IDF collected the evidence; it then communicated it using a spokesperson.

What other source of evidence than the stuff the spokesperson said and the stuff that the IDF found in Hamas’ HQ would you possibly expect?

…well over a hundred journalist have been killed in Gaza since the start of the war. That’s more journalists than America lost in World War 2. More than Vietnam.

I’m happy to go toe-to-toe here with you on the facts. But the reality is that you’ve got no facts. So cheap pot-shots is all you’ve got.

…what evidence did they collect?

I don’t believe there were many American journalists working behind German lines and taking instructions from the Germans and helping the Germans attack US forces.

Why do you think that America may not have lost very many journalists when it fought wars on distant continents? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

:rofl: OK, buddy

…journalists in Gaza aren’t “working behind enemy lines” in the way that you describe. They literally live there. It’s a death toll that far exceeds any other recent conflict by a significant margin. It’s not the first time that journalists have lived in a place that was invaded.

The journalists in Gaza aren’t doing this either.

Yeah. The big picture says that Israel is targeting journalists. The evidence that any one of them is a terrorist is thin. I didn’t know why Israel is murdering journalists. I’m guessing it’s strategic, they don’t want anyone reporting on what they are doing in Gaza. But it seems really clear that Israel is murdering journalists.

…I’m sorry, that wasn’t American journalists. From 2006:

I’m not your buddy.

In that case, they’ve ignored several evacuation warnings at this point, so what happens to them is their own responsibility.

…in NONE of the cases we’ve been talking about today did any of the journalist ignore “evacuation” warnings.

Many of them absolutely are. I don’t know what to tell you.

If you willfully ignore all the evidence that Hamas does indeed do fucked up shit that leads to higher civilian casualties, including the misuse of press privileges to attack Israel, which leads to the deaths of both Hamas terrorists dressed as press as well as journalists who aren’t Hamas but whose PRESS vests don’t protect nearly as well when PRESS clad terrorists are out there too - then I guess you have no choice but to conclude that Israel is bloodthirsty murdering journalists left and right.

With all due respect, do you not see how fucking stupid that idea is?

There’s tons and tons of reporting coming out of Gaza. Every idiot with a smartphone can be a reporter. Do you really think that a bunch of adults sat around a room and seriously concluded that they can shush atrocities by murdering journalists? Again, with all do respect, do you seriously believe that?

Isn’t it far more believable that the IDF is not, in fact, fully staffed with people psychopathic enough to come up with this plan but mentally deficient enough not to understand why it would never work - but instead, that, first, there really ARE terrorists pretending to be press, and that leads to some of the deaths; and, second, innocent journalists get killed because Israeli tank operators don’t think it’s far fetched that a group of PRESS clad people aiming a tube at the tank are terrorists in disguise, since that’s a thing that happens on a fairly regular basis?

So you’re now claiming that at no point in the last year have Gazans been warned to evacuate.

Weird claim to make, but coming from the poster who gave us such hits as “there are no tunnels” and “Hamas doesn’t use human shields”, it’s not unexpected.

…from the latest Flash update: due to the deteriorating situation on the ground the Flash updates have been reduced to only one per week.

Much more available at the link.

From the UN Human Rights Office:

The state of emergency services in Northern Gaza:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/gaza-civil-defense-ceases-operations-in-northern-part-of-enclave/3372416

While there are posters in this thread who appear to be positively gleeful that Israel are targeting and killing journalists, a reminder that the IDF are waging a systematic campaign of destruction, driving people out of and then burning their homes down, separating men and some boys from the women and sending them on forced marches to goodness knows where. That these aren’t “evacuations.” They are destroying these homes. There isn’t anywhere for them to return to. Its ethnic cleansing.

…which ones?

Nope.

But that wasn’t what you said.

Ah, I see, you’re mixing methodologies.

In the Gaza war, you’re counting any journalist who is killed, whether they were shot while accompanying a military unit or killed in a bombing that hits their house.

The WW2 number is cherry picked to include only journalists who were killed while actively reporting on the war. (Or more charitably, they simply didn’t bother to do the admittedly gruelling work of going through endless records to determine how many journalists were killed in contexts other than on the front line).

Your number is not counting journalists killed in their beds during the Battle of London or the Bombing of Dresden, or during the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It doesn’t count Chinese journalists killed by the Japanese during the Rape of Nanking or other massacres, or Jewish journalists killed by the Nazis.

Combine that with the fact that we have many more press agencies than we did in WW2, and that many of them employ far more people, and it’s not surprising at all that the numbers are in entirely different orders of magnitude.

If you want an apples to apples comparison, rather than using a war from nearly a century ago, you could look at Syria, where 750 journalists have been killed in the ongoing war.

Your buddy Al Ghoul, for one.

So according to Banquet_Bear, the following things are true;

  1. There are journalists who are civilians living in Gaza
  2. Civilians living in Gaza have been warned to evacuate
  3. Journalists who are civilians living in Gaza have not been warned to evacuate

Clear as mud.

…no he wasn’t.

With all due respect, unless you define anyone who writes propaganda for the enemy as a terrorist, i think that’s pretty unlikely that all those journalists were also terrorists.

So i don’t know why they appear to have been targeted. But you haven’t given me any plausible reason, either.