Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit

That is my expectation, as well.

NBC just reported that the water pumps and sewage treatment facility in Rafa are now shut down. I’m no authority but I’ve seen the results of no available restroom facilities. Outdoor defecation and no hand washing is a recipe for typhoid.

Didn’t meant to imply that we should add these percentages up. Like you, I believe in math.

It doesn’t matter what Israel does or does not find, or does or does not show the world; few minds, if any, will be changed.

The world is changed a few minds at a time. The truth always matters.

Two days ago I was arguing that surely the IDF must have strong evidence that there was a Hamas HQ down there. Today I am much less sure. I can be persuaded, but it’ll take evidence.

…in Northern Gaza, the Indonesian Hospital is now “out of service.” I’ve included a link to the Al Jazeera report. (Link spoiled because it contains images of wounded Palestinians being treated) Actual video from the hospital, that I won’t link to here, is even more disturbing. A care-worker using a manual ventilator on a child, the only thing keeping them alive. Blood soaked gauze all over the floor, next to patients who take up almost the entire floorspace because there is nowhere else to put them.

So whats next for the Indonesian Hospital?

At Al-Shifa The IDF have been in control of the hospital for a couple of days now.

And heres the absolutely worse thing. It didn’t have to happen this way. It the intelligence was good enough to show that there were “command and control” bunkers at the hospital, then the intelligence should have been good enough to tell them of the massive need for humanitarian aid at the hospital. They didn’t need to lay siege to the hospital for six days. They could have just gone in, as they ended up doing anyway. And after the hospital had been secured they could have rolled in trucks of food, water, fuel and medical supplies. And they could have bought in doctors and nurses to give relief to the medical workers who have risked their lives to keep people alive.

Instead: we have this. Whatever the fuck this is. Where a handful of weapons and a laptop are lauded as all the proof they needed.

The siege of Al-Shifa was a war crime. The attack on Al-Shifa was a war crime. What they are doing while they are searching for “bunkers” at Al-Shifa is a war crime. Even if we accept that prior to the siege that the hospital may have “lost its protection”, now that it is fully under the IDF control, those protections return. There are no excuses for what is happening at the hospital right now.

The latest Flash Update from the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs says:

Much more at the link.

The situation in the North is dire. Only one barely functional hospital. Malnutrition and starvation. People dying in the streets, in their homes, not only from the deadly consequences of the war, but the mundane things that kill people when they can’t get hospital care.

In the south, the place that the Palestinians have been told to flee to so they could be safe:

One-third of those killed so far have been in the South. Nowhere in Gaza is safe. It’s been a week since we stopped getting regular casualty numbers from the Palestinian Ministry of Health. And with the IDF showing no interest in keeping track of those numbers, we have no idea how bad things really are now.

No sign of a let-up of the siege. No fuel going to the hospitals. Most of the hospitals shut down. The bombing continues. No strategy. No end in sight.

…full video here:

Considering what the IDF has shown so far, it seems more like the Bush administration hyping up 25 year old chemical warheads from the Iran-Iraq War as the proof of the claimed weapons of mass destruction Iraq supposedly had tons of and were actively making more.

Well, 15 year old weapons. Math is hard. Still, it’s been very weak tea so far.

I suppose I’m over thinking this/just notice the wrong thing, but why would you hide weapons (metal weapons) next to an mri machine? I know terrorists blah blah, but that just seems stupid. Aren’t there other less dicey places to leave your guns? And they didn’t look “hidden.” I admit I only saw a quick TV shot. The whole thing made me go Hmmm?

I posted in the other thread, there is doubt about that report, and there is evidence the IDF is not being 100% honest.

Even the videos produced so far have raised questions under scrutiny. A BBC analysis found the footage of an IDF spokesperson showing the apparent discovery of a bag containing a gun behind an MRI scanning machine, had been taped hours before the arrival of the journalists to whom he was supposedly showing it.

In a video shown later, the number of guns in the bag had doubled. The IDF claimed its video of what it found at the hospital was unedited, filmed in a single take, but the BBC analysis found it had been edited.

…so far 24 patients have died at Al-Shifa as equipment has stopped working due to power outages since the IDF took over. Reports that some food and water has been supplied, but not nearly enough to feed the nearly 2-3000 people that are trapped at the hospital. The IDF provided 5 incubators for babies. But the hospital already has 50 incubators: what they don’t have is power.

As the IDF prepare to do the same thing to other hospitals in the region, and as they prepare a new offensive down south where they are claiming that Hamas leadership have moved to, one would hope that this would be an object lesson in following the evidence. There was never any evidence that there was an underground command and control bunker below Al-Shifa Hospital. Thousands of people have worked there. We’ve had decades to investigate the claims. Instead everyone just believed the claims to be true. "Insurgency 101, as someone said to me in the other thread.

And if the command and control bunker claims were untrue, I would hope everyone would take the time to reflect on statements like “hiding behind human shields” and consider how true those statements are as well. Because Israel is not tracking the number of civilian casualties in Gaza. They literally have no way of knowing if they are hitting Hamas targets or not.

Gaza is cut off from food, water, fuel. They are taking out the hospitals, one, by one, and not replacing them with anything. These are crimes against humanity.

…absolutely shocking news just went down at Al-Shifa. This is breaking, normal disclaimers apply.

(Link is to live-feed page, it may refresh or have changed by the time you click it)

Basically from all reports the hospital has been cleared out. Over a hundred patients and some medical staff remain, the rest are being forced to walk south.

And now there are reports that the IDF deny asking people to leave, and they don’t know why everyone just upped and left. “It wasn’t us!” they are claiming as the problem of how to house, feed, water, and give medical attention to thousands of people simply goes away.

…another fucking pointless massacre. The IDF bombed a UNRWA school.

Link to Al-Jazeera report, contains disturbing images including multiple dead children, spoilered to fit the two-click rule.

NBC News wrote an hour ago that a UN consortium reported approximately 60% of housing stock in Gaza overall is now inhabitable. It’s hard for me to picture that amount of rubble. Maybe it’s like WWII when Britain and Germany bombed it each other to bits.

I assume you mean “uniinhabitable.”

Of course, when you think about it, however you flip the numbers, a staggering number of people have lost their homes.

In Gaza. Not so much in Israel, right?

No, why?

If addressed to me, I don’t understand your question. If you looked at Gaza and Israel, you’d see that one of them has been destroyed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-s-far-right-calls-for-palestinians-to-resettle-outside-gaza/ar-AA1mJfCZ?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=0d7d77bace9f4c60a42f57e1f67314ee&ei=29

I can’t say I didn’t see this coming.