You get that conditions on the ground were extraordinarily bad and that information was difficult, sometimes impossible, to gather in any way except imperfectly.
Have you even looked at the initial IPC report? They don’t claim “hundreds of people would starve to death on a daily basis”. You are extrapolating from an informational fact-sheet written for the layman. I’m reading the actual report.
Yet another lie.
They never predicted a number of deaths.
I asked for a cite for what the IPC said post the ending of the total siege. I’m still waiting. Because again: they never predicted hundreds of people would die every day.
And if I knew the conflict entirely through bullshit online propaganda, instead of being friends and family with many IDF members, I might actually be mind numbingly ignorant enough to believe that nonsense when you spewed it.
Ammnesty International.
Human Rights Watch
The Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention
Jewish Voices for Peace
B’Tselem and PHRI
The UN Special Committee:
The UN Commission of Inquiry
Refugee International
Omer Bartov
As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel
… By the time I travelled to Israel, I had become convinced that at least since the attack by the IDF on Rafah on 6 May 2024, it was no longer possible to deny that Israel was engaged in systematic war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocidal actions. It was not just that this attack against the last concentration of Gazans – most of them displaced already several times by the IDF, which now once again pushed them to a so-called safe zone – demonstrated a total disregard of any humanitarian standards. It also clearly indicated that the ultimate goal of this entire undertaking from the very beginning had been to make the entire Gaza Strip uninhabitable, and to debilitate its population to such a degree that it would either die out or seek all possible options to flee the territory. In other words, the rhetoric spouted by Israeli leaders since 7 October was now being translated into reality – namely, as the 1948 UN Genocide Convention puts it, that Israel was acting “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part”, the Palestinian population in Gaza, “as such, by killing, causing serious harm, or inflicting conditions of life meant to bring about the group’s destruction”.
I’m entirely comfortable with my characterisation of the IDF. I think it’s backed up by a substantial body of evidence.
So, you are saying that anyone who ever was on a spreadsheet produced by Hamas, listed as a Hamas soldier, is a valid military target for the rest of their life?
But the TLDR version is that the situation is vastly more complex than what you, a non-expert in this subject who is relying on a factsheet for beginners, make it out to be. That the very same criteria used for Gaza was ALSO used in Sudan and South Sudan. That they didn’t “change their definition just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza.” That’s conspiratorial levels of thinking.
It’s okay to admit you aren’t an expert in this subject. I’m not an expert either. There are times we should defer to the experts, and this is one of those times.
Great example, you fucking cretin. In Sudan, in a place like Zamzam Camp, 1.1-3.6 people per 10,000 died each day of starvation for extended periods of time. That’s why it makes sense to call what happened there a stage 4-5 famine.
Nothing like that has happened in Gaza. That’s why it is both dishonest and disingenuous to call both stage 5 famines. You know this, and yet you continue to pretend otherwise. Why?
I mean, the answer is very obvious, but go ahead and make up some bullshit excuse.
…I love it that you have your talking points lined up all ready to go. But this isn’t relevant because the IPC outline the criteria in the PDF I cited, and that criteria is the same as they applied to other famines.
The fact that you’ve cherry-picked a single stat doesn’t change that. The the IPC didn’t change their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza. That didn’t happen.
If you were an expert in the subject, I’d probably think this was somehow relevant. But you are just a random guy on the internet making wild conspiracy theories. So this isn’t relevant at all.
They were both stage 5 famines because:
• Weight-for-Height Z-score (WHZ): At least 30% of children aged 6–59 months have a WHZ below -2 standard deviations or oedema. • Mid-Upper Arm Circumference (MUAC): At least 15% of children aged 6–59 months have a MUAC below 125 mm or oedema and evidence shows a rapid deterioration of underlying drivers of acutemalnutrition.
A minute ago you told me that the fact that there are thousands of missing deaths in their estimate is explained by the fact that it’s hard to get information out of Gaza because Israel, monstrous demons that they are, won’t let doctors get accurate stats.
But then a moment later, you’re telling me that they have super accurate statistics about the arm circumference and height of a representative sample of people in Gaza.
You are, of course, enormously full of shit.
The fact that you think it is appropriate to describe a situation where at various points between 1.1-3.6 people starved to death every single day to a situation where a grand total of 450 people died over 567 days is very telling. I know that you don’t actually think the two situations should be categorized at the same severity of famine; if you were that stupid, you couldn’t figure out how to log onto this site. So clearly, you’re taking a position you know is full of shit.
…this is a lie. The IPC never made any predictions about the numbers of deaths.
I mean…you can literally read the report. They literally talk about the “breakdown in monitoring systems.” That the Mid-Upper Arm Circumference is “widely used in emergency contexts”.
It’s all right there.
You are looking for contradictions. But there aren’t any reasons why both of these things can’t be true.
I’m not an expert in these things. And neither are you.
But I’m citing the experts. If you think I’m misinterpreting what they have said, feel free to point that out. I’m open to being corrected on the specific details and the facts. But that isn’t what you are doing.
I’m quoting what the IPC said. You claimed that “the IPC didn’t change their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza.” The IPC says that isn’t true. They applied the very same criteria to other famines, including in Sudan.
That you think this “isn’t appropriate” doesn’t matter.
I think the IPC set the criteria. I don’t know why you think you know better than the IPC: but all I’m doing is quoting directly what they have said.
You’re the one claiming that “the IPC changed their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza”. That’s an extraordinary claim.
What does that have to do with who’s in the right in this war? Absolutely nothing. Does Israel deserve to be conquered and its people murdered or exiled because of an unprosecuted rape?
“I’m accusing the IPC’s Famine Review Committee of changing their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza based on a misunderstanding of what the actual criteria is they use in order to determine famine because EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY and because I don’t understand how anything works.”
I’ve given you my answer. I don’t care what it says about the Israeli justice system and you’ve given me no reason why I should. Israel’s justice system is for Israelis to care about.
“For a projection of famine, the current situation can still be below famine thresholds, but through a critical analysis, it is concluded that the condition will pass the famine cut-offs in the projection period.”
I don’t think I can explain empathy and decency and morality to you. I care about the Israeli justice system because Israelis are humans, as are others that can be impacted by it. Humans deserve a decent and fair justice system, IMO. Your mileage obviously varies.
My question is why their prediction was two orders of magnitude off. The only conclusion I can draw is GIGO: politically motivated garbage in, politically motivated garbage out.
…I think that’s a stupid conclusion based on zero evidence.
From the other document I cited before:
You’ve done this before. You don’t understand the linear nature of time. Sometimes an organisation will make a projection, then things change on the ground which changes the overall outcome. That’s just how things work.
You are making extraordinary claims that this was “politically motivated” just to “accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza”.
But you have provided zero evidence of this. Not one single bit of evidence at all.
We can consider this lie debunked. Comprehensively and conclusively.
Let’s move on to the murder of the fifteen paramedics on the 23rd of March, 2025. Do you condemn these killings?
