I answered your question. It’s your turn now.
What has Hamas done since October 7th that you won’t deny, excuse, or rationalize?
…I condemn the taking of the hostages, I condemn them not releasing them. I condemn the abusive treatment, I condemn not giving access to the Red Cross.
I condemn them each and every time they target civilians. I condemn them for their cruel and harsh system of governance. I condemn them for not allowing any elections. I condemn them for every single act of terrorism they have ever done.
Now back to my question. so everything the IDF have done in Gaza (apart from killing a handful of aid workers) is just fine?
I condemn them allowing Hamas to come to power in the first place. I condemn them not removing Hamas from power 18 years ago. I condemn Netenyahu for trying to use the war to stay in office. I condemn the ultranationalists and ultra-Orthodox who would like to colonize Gaza. I condemn any soldier who has deliberately targeted a civilian for no military purpose.
Killing civilians is never “just fine”; the deaths of noncombatants are always a tragedy.
Israel is making enormous efforts to minimize those civilian casualties.
…this is a lie.
Gaza has been under siege for seven months. They’ve destroyed the healthcare system, and forcibly displaced over a million people, destroyed their homes, their schools, their places of worship.
“Making enormous efforts to minimize those civilian casualties” my arse.
Yeah, that’s called a war.
That’s what happens when your government is a terrorist group whose forces operate out of all of these places. Which you will now deny, because you’re Al Qassam Shitpost Brigade’s finest champion.
I notice you didn’t condemn Hamas for operating out of hospitals, schools, places of worship, or homes. Probably because you keep denying it happens.
…its called a siege, and its a warcrime.
Its what happens when Isreal decides to conduct a genocidal campaign.
Doesn’t this get tired? Is this really all you’ve got left?
Lame.
If you had any evidence that would support the level of destruction that we’ve seen then I would be condemning it.
But you don’t have it. Which is why you don’t show it. Nor has the IDF. Because it doesn’t exist. A handful of empty tunnels filmed last year doesn’t cut it.
Yeah but not genocide
There are millions of Palestinians who will never recognise the state of Israel amd of whom give tacit approval of the October 7th attacks, downplaying the Palestnians will to continue the conflict is the reason why calling for a ceasefire is utterly bizarre.
Their leadership, which was voted by them in 2006, is in part representative of their values, I don’t hear much sympathy for the German civilians carpet bombed by the Allies to bring and end to a war they themselves initiated, why do you put such a double standard on the Palestinians who show no compunction to live in peace with Israel?
The tunnel system runs beneath many Gazan towns and cities, such as Khan Yunis, Jabalia and the Shati refugee camp
It’s not my word that they’re not comitting genocide it’s the general consensus of the EU US and UN otherwise the ICC would have already come to that conclusion.
Wow so they got the Yazidi one right, and the Gaza one wrong and jumped on the genocide bandwagon.
Just like those poor Germans who were bombed in WWII
So a bigot it is, then. Judging millions not based on anything the vast majority have actually done, but based on their ethnicity.
WWII was so different there’s no comparison - actual nation states, for one thing. For another - we weren’t doing what the German government wanted, unlike this war. Netanyahu might as well be a member of Hamas, as much as he’s done their bidding for the last few decades.
I’ll keep this in mind for future discussions.
…I’m asking for evidence to show that Hamas had compromised the entire civilian infrastructure to its own benefit. A Wikipedia article that is mostly historical context isn’t that. Not at all.
Israel has had seven months to document the extent that Hamas has “compromised the entire civilian infrastructure.” They haven’t done it because they can’t.
It certainly isn’t the general consensus for the UN, and this isn’t how the ICC actually works. But you’ve been told this already. Many, many times. So I guess you are just trolling now.
Because, you know, these aren’t just a bunch of randos on the internet.
Here’s Raz Segal, an Israeli historian residing in the United States who is Associate Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies and Endowed Professor in the Study of Modern Genocide.
You can respectfully disagree as much as you like, but claiming they’ve “jumped on the genocide bandwagon” is a dick move.
It’s a lot worse than bizarre - it’s downright sinister. So long as the international community acts like this, hollering and hooting about genocide and Palestine being free from the river to the sea and pretending like a UN Resolution that condemns Israel for the 19474850th time will give the Palestinians the whole land, with right of return.
As long as this is what the international community implicitly tells Palestinians that this is what they deserve, they would have to be stupid to ever accept a two state solution. Which is why, again and again, when offered 67 borders but no right of return, the Palestinians have rejected our offers. Why take half the pie when half the world is screeching that making you share is a genocide and an apartheid?
But of course, that fact won’t stop thpse who give 0 fucks about Palestinians but view the West as the root of all Evil. Who cares if the Palestinians spend another 50 years fighting Israel instead of building a separate state? In fact, that’s a good thing, because it opposes Imperialism!
Anyone who actually cares about Palestinian lives should be pushing for the elimination of Hamas and the establishment of a Palestinian state. Anything else is just using the Palestinians as a prop - no, actually, as ammunition - in an “anti-Imperialist” struggle.
This is made obvious by the behavior of the UNRWA. God forbid someone of Palestinian descent builds a happy life outside of Palestine; how could we use their life as ammunition against the Big and Little Satans?
See, you say this, but then you also say that Israel should accept the ceasefire option where Hamas returns as many bodies as it feels like in exchange for thousands of terrorists being released, and Israel leaves Gaza indefinitely. That’s precisely what Hamas is asking for, so it’s a bit odd to me that you are making declarations about not doing exactly what Hamas wants.
What Hamas wants is to stay in power. The only way not to give them that is to put someone else in charge instead, and assist the new leaders long enough to ensure their government sticks.
…anyone who actually cares about Palestinian lives would be calling for Israel to stop killing Palestinians, to call for a ceasefire, to open the borders and to end the siege, to allow humanitarian agencies to flood the country with aid and shelter and food and medical supplies, if anyone who actually cared about Palestinians they would be flying in field hospitals from around the world.
And now we find out you are an anti-UNRWA conspiracy nut. What a shame.
Lile the eight that the IDF helped to set up around Gaza, right?
You’re a funny one, Banquet Bear. You literally cannot admit to any of the structural issues or roadblocks on the Palestinian side that prevent peace. It’s all Israel and Netanyahu.
I’ll fully admit that Netanyahu isn’t working towards peace. But guess what? Netanyahu wasn’t elected in a vacuum. Issues like the UNRWA ensuring that as many people remain embroiled in the conflict as possible or Palestinian intansigence on the Right of Return idea have destroyed the credibility of the Israeli left when it comes to the peace process. Not to mention the Second Intifada breaking out when a peace deal failed precisely because of Palestinians insisting on a Right of Return.
It really does look like Oct 7th destroyed Netanyahu’s credibility, too. This is the perfect opportunity for the Israeli left to take the reins again and start stirring us towards peace.
But for that to have a snowball’s chance in hell of working out, the Palestinian side also needs to be willing to come to the table, and that means actually coming to the table with offers that Israel can accept.
My big worry is that any moderate Palestinian wiling to work on a two state solution is going to be easily discredited by anyone making maximalist demands in the international community amplifies those maximalist demands. Which is why I am against Tankies shouting about Palestine being free from the river to the sea, or chanting “we don’t want no two states” or “globalize the Intifada”.
Serious question, and a bit a of a diversion. Is the extension of Palestinian refugee status all that different from the Jewish right of return to Israel? Perhaps Israel would be in a better place if they didn’t accept every right wing nut job who just happens to be Jewish.
The Palestinian Authority offered a deal at Camp David that gave them roughly 97% of West Bank territories. Feel free to enlighten me if I’m wrong but AFAIK Israel has never offered 67 borders since.
And at any rate do you really think it makes sense that Palestinians are thinking “well Israel currently controls a significant portion of my territory, but I heard some people at the UN or something make nonbinding declarations that I should have the right to land in Israel. That second thing seems more relevant to my life.”
If Palestinians have their own state, they can let in anyone they want to. That’s not an issue at all.
The problem is a right of return to Israel.
With Right of Return to Israel itself. Which is untenable. It’s a way of backdooring a one state solution.
Israel offered them 96+% of the West Bank in 2008. That was the last time either side was at the table.