Of course not. But some people seem to think that things are especially or uniquely bad in the present.
The way I see it, you can either throw up your hands, say it’s over and mope until you die, or you can accept the imperfections while dedicating yourself to making it work, making it better.
So your plan is to claim progress is being made, whether it is or isn’t at the moment, indefinitely into the future until and unless the country ends up in radioactive ruins, at which point there’s no one around to listen to you admitting, “OK, we failed”?
Sound like a good plan.
- I find it very rare, so “some people” seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me.
- All pain is unique to the person it happens to. If you get shot in the arm you don’t smile and think “Damn, I’m lucky! At least I wasn’t raped and killed like my great-grandmother!”.
From the OP, with my bolding:
It’s a shitload better than any plan I’ve heard you put forth. “Rolling over and dying” isn’t my style.
I’m really paraphrasing here, but I remember seeing a clip from an interview or press event in which former President Obama was asked, during trump’s term in office, what he thought about the state of a nation that would elect trump, and the rise of trumpism in general, after being the first Black President.
His reply was: (again, paraphrasing from memory) history isn’t an inexorable march forward in progress, it’s a series of two steps forward and one step back.
Some things have gotten better. But some things are still bad. And some things are recently bad. Does that mean that it’s more like one step forward and two steps back? Or just not much progress at all? Some seem to think so. I choose to remain optimistic.
Appreciate your honesty in admitting that really is your plan.
Very interesting response. What you’re saying, if I may paraphrase, is that no one knows if we’re moving backwards or forwards or just standing still so you’re going to choose “forwards” because it makes you feel better than the other choices. And no amount of argument will ever make you choose otherwise. So your answer to the discussion question is not to think (or be persuaded) about a different possibility.
Would it help if I say that that doesn’t, to me, look anywhere close to a fair paraphrase of what @solost said?
I think the entire thrust of this thread has been to disagree with that assumption. If you can really believe in such an extreme position not much will talk you out of it.
All I can do is ask, if the American Experience is and has always been such a failure, why does most of the world want to emigrate here? One out of every ten residents were born in another country. More than half the population thinks immigration should stay at the current level or be increased. 70% say immigration is a good thing. Guess who don’t say that.
The American Experiment hasn’t failed. A percentage of the population failed the American Experiment. Very different.
It helps @solost. Doesn’t happen to be true, but sure, throw the guy a bone.
Wow, when you say “if I may paraphrase” clearly what you mean is “if I may twist the hell out of what you’re saying for my own purposes”. If you, or anybody, reads back what I’ve said in this post, it’s far more considered than how you’ve characterized my point of view. I do not appreciate your attempt to set up a strawman of me.
…to non-Americans following along on this thread, the lack of definition of “what the American Experiment” actually is stands out. So I went looking for how this was defined.
From the New York Daily Tribune, November 27, 1860.
Is it possible for a Government to be permanently maintained without privileged classes?
Is the America of today maintained without privileged classes? Nope.
without a standing army?
Nope.
without either hereditary or self-appointed rulers?
Nope.
Is the democratic principle of equal rights, general suffrage, and government by a majority, capable of being carried into practical operation, and that, too, over a large extent of country?
You’ve got the electoral college. Gerrymandering. A supreme court full of unaccountable unelected wizards with no accountability and lifetime appointments. Unprecedented wealth enequality. No real social safety net. 14 states have banned abortion. It can cost someone up to $4000 to have a baby. The average cost of a ride in an ambulance is $1200. America incarcerates more people per capita than anywhere else in the world: and the majority of those incarcerated haven’t been convicted of a crime.
So nope.
Based on what I’m assuming to be what “the American Experiment” actually is, it looks like a big failure to me. At every level. By every metric.
Thank you. 
Well stated.
They believe the myth. And what do they find when they get here?
That they’re better off than they were at home. And far from being a despised minority stuck in the lower tier of society, as a whole their income and achievements mirror those of native-born population almost exactly.
Can you show me exactly which part (in quotation marks, please) of my paraphrase misrepresents you in any way?
It may well embarrass you, I don’t deny that for a second. But you shouldn’t make silly, vacuous statements if you want to avoid embarrassment.
…paraphrases in general debate are typically unhelpful. We can read what it is that solost said. There wasn’t any need for you to recontextualise what they said. And I don’t think your paraphrase was accurate anyway.
Not that I feel a pressing need to accommodate your delusions and clumsy attempts to mischaracterize me, but, ummm, ALL of what you said?
I really don’t get why you’re coming at me like this anyway. I’ve appreciated your point of view in other posts and I don’t really see how what I’ve said so far could have precipitated this kind of response from you. Oh well, I guess Great Debates will rile some people up.
It varies. Many go back. At least as many, even among those who can afford to go back, stay.
I recommend reading:
A Good Provider Is One Who Leaves: One Family and Migration in the 21st Century
The thread topic question asks for something that is a matter of opinion, not fact.
Most countries have a few common national point of pride AKA myths causing lots of their citizens (and voters) to think theirs is a special place. If you say, no, you are wrong, your country isn’t special, lots and lots of people in that country are going to have a very negative reaction. That’s why Obama and Biden might question aspects of the myth but would not want to blow it up.
Personally, I’ll just say my country right or wrong, and if wrong to set it right (paraphrasing immigrant Carl Schurz).