Other than being an evil warmongering supporter of genocidal colonialists? /s
…from Human Rights Watch: Israel have detained thousands of Palestinians both before October 7th, and in increasingly bigger numbers since October 7th. This report tells the story of workers held incommunicado for several weeks:
More at the link.
Right now, at least, 8000 Palestinians are being held in Israeli jails, hundreds from Gaza, many more from the West Bank. An unknown amount of people are also being detained in camps in Gaza, with families having little to no access, many don’t even know if people are being held captive or are dead.
You’re referring to aid from Qatar to the Palestinians as well as an increase in work permits from Israel. I’ll say it again, Hamas is supported by Iran.
Netanyahu helped that money flow to Hamas. He could have tried to help other Palestinian groups, but he found it beneficial to help Hamas because that reduced the chance of an independent Palestinian state.
I certainly hope this isn’t true, because if it is it’s utterly unacceptable. Then again, I can completely believe Netenyahu pushing an idea like this.
Depopulation of Gaza has been the plan from the beginning. The link is from last November.
“Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said on Tuesday that Gaza could not survive as an independent entity and that it would be better for Palestinians living there to leave for other countries.”
Smotrich is the one making noise behind it, but it’s not a thing that would actually happen.
You do understand that you’re doing the equivalent of pointing at AOC under Biden’s government and saying “See, the United States is officially banning meat and gasoline!”?
‘Smotrich Rants’ and ‘Official Israeli Policy’ are not the same thing, just like the existence of Jewish Space Lasers is not official US policy despite what MTG said.
The fact that Smotrich or MTG spread their bullshit while dressed like government officials is undeniably a problem, but pretending that their national governments’ policies are fully aligned with the stream of BS coming out of their mouths is just crazy. That wasn’t even true of the BS coming out of Trump’s mouth when he was president, although of course that was an even bigger problem (and he could back up his nonsense with Executive Action).
Smotrich and Gvir are Ministers of Finance and National Security, respectively. AIUI, those are Cabinet positions, appointed by Netanyahu. That’s more like Yellen and Mayorkas rattling sabers, not AOC and MTG.
Fully aligned? Almost certainly not. But they’re allowed to spread their hate while leading government agencies without public pushback. And to compare leaders of government loud Representatives is disingenuous.
Perhaps so, but Smotrich, Ben Gvir and Netanyahu are in a position to promote the plan:
" The “voluntary” resettlement of Palestinians from Gaza is slowly becoming a key official policy of the government, Zman Israel, The Times of Israel’s Hebrew sister site, reported on Wednesday, citing a senior official as saying that Israel has held talks with several countries for their potential absorption."
This may be bullshit, but the world runs on bullshit.
It’s a bit frustrating to keep hearing this. Who, in your opinion, is both making statements about the future of Gaza, and is in a position to make it happen?
When we look at who’s in a position to make it happen, it’s people who are keeping their mouths shut. When we look at people who are talking about plans, we’re told they can’t influence what happens.
Is it fair to say that any public statements from the members of the War Cabinet may be taken as illustrative of Israel’s official stance?
Here’s what I’m finding on the War Cabinet (gift link):
So, members include:
-Netanyahu
-Benny Gantz
-Yoav Gallant
-Gadi Eisenkot (observer)
-Ron Dermer (observer)
Is this correct?
Moderating:
First, i couldn’t parse this paragraph, so I reached out to @Chisquirrel. @Chisquirrel says that they intended to compare representatives of a government to leaders of a government.
And also, agreed that they should have said “inappropriate”, not “disingenuous”.
Just a reminder that it’s also inappropriate to accuse other posters of being disingenuous in this forum.
Thanks.
I guess I’m surprised that this is surprising to you. Morons who are there to bolster Bibi’s ability to keep himself out of jail run their mouths; serious adults do not.
That’s the war cabinet, correct.
It’s certainly much more indicative of Israel’s official stance, yes. Some things (especially those said by Netanyahu) should be taken with avgrain of salt due to the context of him very likely no longer being in charge by the time “the day after” comes around.
Which is the problem at the heart of the matter - I find the odds that the current government will be the one dealing with the war’s aftermath to be minuscule, and I think the politicians involved know this, too.
??? Political leaders engaged in major governmental actions (such as wars) tend to be public about their plans. Not their specific daily plans, but their long-term intentions. The government has been very clear about their goal of eliminating/disempowering Hamas. It’s weird that they’re being so close-mouthed about the postwar future of Gaza.
The likelihood that Netanyahu won’t be in charge doesn’t remove the weirdness. Somebody is going to be in charge, and it seems like it’d be helpful if the applicants for the job were a little more forthcoming in what they’d like to see happen.
It may be because there are few good choices that people are being so mum.
This terrifies me. Not that i want any of them in power. But they have a really strong motive to make sure the war lasts as long as possible.
A lot of progressives think this is long overdue.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4385866-sanders-calls-for-end-us-funding-netanyahu-immoral-war/
Perhaps, but the only thing protecting them from being removed today is a sense that during a war is not the time to make political moves; IMHO if Netanyahu comes to be seen as dragging on the war for political reasons that strategy would crash and burn.
Really? Did Churchill give speeches about his plans for post-War Germany at the beginning of the war?
I think we will see this start to happen when politicians are jockeying to build a post-Bibi coalition (or even prepare for elections). I don’t think you will see anyone say “hold off on kicking Bibi out for me for now, but once you do, we will need a new PM, and that should be me because…”.
There definitely are very few good choices. I am hopeful that part of the reason for the silence is that the adults in the room are keeping their heads down and working on opening up new diplomatic options, such as assistance from Arab countries in managing Gaza post-war while working on a permenant two state solution.
Ask, and ye shall receive! Can you ask for peace in the middle east (or at least for @Babale to get a few million dollars) next?
Gallant issues some cautious remarks about post war Gaza, gets criticized for it:
From what I saw, Netanyahu spokespeople basically said “We will decide this in meetings of the cabinet, not in the media - stop blabbing” while Daniel Hagari (IDF spokesperson) said “You’re giving our plans way to the enemy - stop blabbing”.
…any plan that allegedly involves a “multi-national force, led by the U.S., Western European nations and moderate Arab countries, taking charge of rebuilding the Gaza Strip” isn’t really a plan anyone here can take seriously. Nobody, not the US, not any of the Western European nations, not any of the moderate Arab countries have expressed any interest in this at all. It’s a sound byte for domestic consumption. Not an actual plan.
Egypt has actively engaged in the process of negation for all the previous engagements between Hamas and Israel.
Your comparison of the current Israeli War Cabinet to a single US Representative is utterly absurd. Yes, it is very likely that the cabinet will be voted out, but it is not guaranteed. But more importantly, they are in fact the current leaders of the Israeli government. What they say while holding those positions has to be viewed as the official opinion of the Israel government at this time. That is kind of the point of being the War Cabinet.