Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023

Then it’s a good thing I didn’t do that. I compared the rantings of Ben Gvir or Smotrich (two politicians who are not on the war cabinet) with the ramblings of MTG.

The war cabinet members were brought up as sources that are potentially indicative of Israeli policy, unlike Ben Gvir or Smotrich.

That’s exactly why they were brought up as a more reliable source of information than Ben Gvir or Smotrich.

…from the genocide submission:

Much…much more at the link.

In the post I quoted you said regarding public statements of the war Cabinet:

“It’s certainly much more indicative of Israel’s official stance, yes”

That is where you lost me. If statements by the current sitting government do not reflect Israel’s current official stance, then who is running the country? I fully appreciate that a new government could have a new official stance, making current statements meaningless, but we can only go with what we have today.

They’re the ones whose statements are indicative of Israel’s official stance, yes. I only used some qualifiers because sometimes they contradict each other, and I didn’t want to have something one of them said once and then retracted and that the other two always opposed thrown in my face, for example.

Wouldn’t we like to know? :rofl: I can tell you who is robbing our coffers during wartime to lavishly spend on Yeshivas and religious sites in Jerusalem; I can tell you who is railing against the Supreme Court in extremely divisive ways that strain our already divided society; and I can tell you who is misappropriating the machinery of the state to try to keep themselves out of prison. But who is doing the difficult job of running things?

Snark aside, yes, the war cabinet is who you should be listening to for official Israeli policy. My criticism has more to do with the fact that they’ve barely done anything to address domestic problems, reign in whackjob ministers like Smotrich and Ben Gvir, etc.

@Babale, who would you say is the best (or, failing that, least worst) alternative to Bibi as a potential future PM?

I’ll give you three answers. The “least bad/actually gonna happen” answer, the “would be nice but probably not gonna happen” answer, and the “who I would be voting for” answer.

The Prime Minister when Bibi is out will almost certainly be Gantz. It’s possible that something unexpected will change that - we are in a war, after all - but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Blue White is a party that at this point mostly exists to say “look, we aren’t Bibi!”. And that’s admirable - we truly need more people who aren’t Bibi in the world, that’s great - but it also isn’t really a platform. So this is the “least bad” option, because at least it’s not Bibi, and once he’s gone the political field will shift enough that someone else could become viable.

Slightly better would be Yair Lapid, of Yesh Atid. See, Blue White was originally an alliance of centrist and left wing parties intending to take down Netanyahu. Yair Lapid of Yesh Atid brought much of the policy to the alliance. When the alliance broke apart and Blue White somehow inexplicably remained standing, Yesh Atid took their policy planks and went home while Gantz was left with “Look, no Bibi here!”. But Lapid had a few scandals and missteps and ended up relegated to the Opposition. Still, Bibi’s fall could shake things up enough for Lapid to return. And the people I’d be voting for (we’ll get to that) would in all likelihood end up supporting Lapid in building a coalition, so my vote would basically be supporting him - which I’d be fine with; his policies are alright, he’s got his eye on the prize of a two state solution, and so on.

But if I were living in Israel I’d not be voting for either Blue White or Yesh Atid; I’d be voting for Labor, and Merav Michaeli. Practically, Labor hasn’t been doing super well, due to a whole host of factors that are too complex to get into in this post, which means the Labor ministers who get in would join Lapid, either in the opposition or in a coalition led by Yesh Atid.

I didn’t realize you weren’t living in Israel. You’re one of the the closest things to “boots on the ground” that this board has had since 10/7 and your insider perspective has been very informative to me.

Do Israelis living abroad not get to cast absentee votes?

I grew up there, and most of my family (everyone aside from my parents and brother) live there; I still visit often, speak Hebrew to my kids, etc so I try to stay connected. But the super up to date questions are better directed at Alessan.

I appreciate the kind words :slight_smile:

No, Israelis living abroad cannot vote, aside from diplomats and the like.

I believe I am eligible to vote, despite lacking an Israeli address, but only if I travel to Israel to cast my ballot.

That’s disappointing. IMO more countries should follow the French model where citizens living abroad have their own constituencies in the legislature, but I don’t know how that’d work with Knesset elections being at-large.

French and Jordanian air drops.

2 C-130’s dropping aid to hospital using directional parachute system.

…I saw that. From what I could gather from the sources I could see, this series of drops was done without the co-operation of Israel, although I stand to be corrected. This would be a significant escalation by other countries to break the blockade.

Hamza, son of Al Jazeera’s Wael Dahdouh, killed in Israeli attack in Gaza Hamza, son of Al Jazeera’s Wael Dahdouh, killed in Israeli attack in Gaza | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera

Yeah, Al Jazeera hates Israel. But an awful lot of journalists have been killed in this war. They claim that s car carrying journalists, in a “safe zone”, interviewing civilians, was targeted.

…when you look at the aftermath of the strike that killed both Wael Dahdouh and Mustafa Thuraya: (Link to Twitter, I’ve spoiled the link even though the destruction is so total that you can’t really see anything)

You see it was the result of a precision strike of the sorts that we know Israel is capable of, that they’ve used multiple times in the past to take out Hamas senior operatives. A single car, in the middle of the street, nothing else around. So many other journalists in Gaza were killed in their homes with their families while they slept. The official number of verified journalist deaths in Gaza is 72. The running total in Wiki including those killed in Southern Lebanon is 86. The toll including people like social media influencers is over 100. The war on journalists continues.

As does the war on hospitals. The latest hospital in the firing line, Al-Aqsa Hospital in the middle of Gaza.

The latest update from Tedros:

The announcement from MSF from a couple of days ago where they announced they were pulling their staff out of the hospital:

We can see the impact of how Israel have targeted other hospitals in Gaza. Under threat of imminent siege and possibly disappearing into the black-hole of Israeli detention, staff are abandoning the hospital. And nobody can blame them. The international organizations have mostly pulled out. This is an utterly nightmarish, dystopian, completely avoidable situation.

…more on the hospital situation in the north:

Not often that my government gets something right nowadays, but they’re certainly getting it right at the ICJ today.

“A fourth lesson centers on Netanyahu himself. He is continuing to play politics, postponing any investigation into who’s to blame for the security failures of Oct. 7, while he tries to wear the mantle of a heroic wartime Prime Minister. Israeli columnists highlighted the CIA’s conclusion that he is prolonging the war for his own selfish interests, to remain in power as corruption charges continue to play out at a snail’s pace in court. To maintain his coalition, he keeps bending to the will of extreme rightwing cabinet ministers who are intent on retaining the West Bank forever—and now talk about taking over the Gaza Strip and expelling the 2.2 million Palestinians who live there.”

That about sums it up. Link

Solitary confinement for (Jewish) Israeli citizen critical of the war. Tell me more about how the hardliners are just outliers and the Israeli military isn’t run by them…

It is notable that this citizen was charged with treason and arrested by the regular police, rather than disappeared by the secret police and held without trial. That supports his claim that his case was meant to send a public message not to rock the boat.

I’m not really sure what the fact that he was fired (by a school - he is a teacher) or the fact that he was arrested (by civilian police) has to do with the people who run the military. Neither school boards nor metropolitan police departments are fighting in Gaza. But that aside, you ask why I have faith in Israel? Because we are a country that (despite Netanyahu’s best efforts) operates by rule of law, and in fact the court system has been quite favorable to this guy, even recommending that he be reinstated at his school job.