…jesus christ they just murdered Anas al-Sharif.
Its not going to stop, is it.
It appears the IDF itself isn’t necessarily ready to rationalize it. (link to full article)
From The Guardian:
This is the most severe crisis in the history of relations between the political echelon and the military since the 1948 war,” said Prof Yagil Levy, the head of the Institute for the Study of Civil-Military Relations at the Open University of Israel. “Never before has the political leadership compelled the military to execute an operation it adamantly opposed.”
In the seven days leading up to the pivotal meeting of Israel’s security cabinet at which the plan was approved, the chief of staff, Lt Gen Eyal Zamir, had repeatedly voiced his misgivings over the move to fully occupy the territory, warning that taking over Gaza would plunge Israel into a “black hole” of prolonged insurgency, humanitarian responsibility and heightened risk to hostages.
Zamir’s dissent ignited a political storm, with the son of the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accusing the army’s chief of staff of mutiny. Israel’s far-right national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, urged the chief of staff to “clearly state he will fully comply with the political leadership’s instructions, even if the decision is to occupy Gaza”.
Some Israeli reports suggested Zamir could resign.
Read to the end for another interesting tidbit; only 60% of Israelis called for reserve duty in the IDF are actually showing up.
The US provides about 15% of the IDFs budget. They could cheerfully go on doing what they do without it. And a lot of the US aid is anti-missile weaponry.
And none of this would have happened if Hamas had not attacked Israel.
By no means do this excuse that crook Netanyahu and his actions.
Mind you, the people of Israel and the IDF are not wholly behind that crook.
Going pro Hamas or pro Gaza would lose them the large Jewish lobby, i.e. political suicide.
This is not the Dems fault, it is the fault of trump, egging Netanyahu on. Those few pro-palestine voters that voted against Harris are now seeing what “the lesser of two evils” really mean- yes, Biden/Harris could have done more (and even more if Biden would have been willing to break the law and cut off aid permanently), but trump is a total disaster.
And is Carlson anti Israel or just the usual bigoted hate?
Read this
Thus, the paleoconservative or “Woke Right” perspective, while it may at times borrow talking points or framing from the Palestine solidarity movement, is better understood as indifference to the issue altogether and a general suspicion of the U.S.-Israel relationship for reasons relating to the interests of the white Christian working class. Their suspicion in that area, based as it is in white Christian identity politics and an aversion to foreign wars, has little or nothing to do with the experience of Palestinians or the facts on the ground in Gaza.
…I can’t believe that after nearly two years of this, people are still invoking the “pro Hamas” strawman.
There was absolutely nothing I said, or anything in my link, that was even remotely “pro Hamas.” Not in the slightest.
But for the sake of clarity: I 100% condemn Hamas. What they did on October 7th was an atrocity and a warcrime. I am not pro Hamas. I do not support anyone that is pro Hamas, and I did not share any pro Hamas viewpoints in this thread.
And let’s be clear on this: the “Jewish lobby” and Jewish people are not the same. Which explains why so many Jewish people support pro-Palestinian candidates like Mamdani.
I think it’s very clear that most Jewish people oppose the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. They oppose the extermination of the Palestinian people. And it’s about time we call the “lobby” out. If any lobby group, no matter who they are, support the proposed tactics of ethnic cleansing and extermination of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, then I oppose it. And everyone else should do that as well.
This IS the Democrats fault. They let this happen.
I argue in this thread:
That it didn’t matter if Trump won or Harris. We would be in exactly the same place now. I don’t believe the Democrats would put any meaningful restraint on Netanyahu. In fact, you argued in other threads that there wasn’t anything they could do at all, and Biden at the time had done all he could. So what are you imagining would be the difference now?
“Evils” is the right word to be using here.
A vote for Trump or a vote for Harris was indeed a vote for evil.
But we don’t actually know if it would have been a “lesser” evil or not. Rafah was flattened under Biden. Even though Rafah was supposed to be his “red line.” The Gazan healthcare system destroyed under Biden. Hundreds of journalists assassinated under Biden. I think we would be in exactly the same place right now under Harris. Except that because the Democrats would have been in charge, there may well have been less opposition to how Israel is waging its “war.”
And no: pro-Palestinians (voters, non voters and otherwise) are NOT responsible for Trump. The blame should go where it belongs: the people that voted for MAGA, the Democrats for not recognising the threat for decades, hiding the extent of Biden’s decline, and a last minute pivot on Harris’s campaign that took it down the road of blandness and mediocrity.
I don’t care. That wasn’t the point.
I don’t need to read a link to know that Tucker Carlson is a hateful, bigoted, loathsome idiot most probably with a hidden agenda. He praised the killers of Fernando Pereira. I will never ever forget that, nor forgive him.
I was explaining how pro-Palestinian views had infiltrated into the MAGAsphere. Thats all.
Going pro-Hamas would be both idiotic and evil. But an awful lot of American Jews are appalled by what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza. (For that matter, so are an awful lot of Israeli Jews.)
I think a carefully worded opposition to the annexation of Gaza would play very well with American Jews, frankly.
Nor did I claim there were- in your posts. But there is some, but mostly “pro-people of palestine/gaza”.
OpenSecrets’ 1990–2006 data shows that “pro-Israel interests have contributed $56.8 million in individual, group and soft money donations to federal candidates and party committees since 1990.” In contrast, Arab-Americans and Muslim PACs contributed slightly less than $800,000 during the same (1990–2006) period.
Israel lobby in the United States - Wikipedia.
Sure. But most of them support the elimination of Hamas. Yes, many Israelis think Netanyahu has gone too far. But none support Hamas or terrorism.
How?
NONE of that happened under the Biden administration. It happened under the Netanyahu administration, and the Hamas terror attacks. What did you want Biden to do? Send troops to stop the IDF? Never. Cut military aid to Israel? He did- briefly, which is all he could do legally. Congress sets the aid budget. Not the President. Read the Constitution. Biden- working with a GOP congress could not permanently end aid to Israel. This is like saying the Holocaust happened under FDR.
No, Biden had nothing whatsoever to do with that. Yes, he was President, but he did not order, or condone those actions. It is Netanyahu , not Biden, nor the PM or Germany, nor Italy, nor the Uk etc, all of which provided military aid to Israel. Biden sent a lot of aid to Gaza.
No- anti JEWISH views. He is a bigot and his followers are anti-zionists.
Sure. They want Hamas stopped, they want the hostages back, and a general cessation of terrorism. It is trump and Netanyahu (and their religious right backing) that support such things.
I can’t speak for “most American Jews”. But speaking for one American Jew whom i know very well (me) i only support the elimination of hamas in the sense that i support a pony for everyone. There is no way to “eliminate Hamas” without killing most of Gaza. Because if you just kill everyone who has been connected with Hamas, you leave an awful lot of people whose fathers and brothers and sons and mothers and sisters and daughters were killed by Israel, and a lot of those people will become Hamas, or something just as ugly and dangerous, in a wish for revenge.
Weakening Hamas, protecting Israel from Hamas, hell, making Hamas less relevant are all goals i support. Or did, before the recent situation rendered all those impossible. Now i just want to stop the killing.
…no there isn’t. Not to any degree that means bringing it up in this thread.
So it isn’t about doing the right thing, it’s about the money. Gotcha.
How about instead we just do the right thing?
Then what are we even discussing? Israel are killing on average 700 people per week. On average 10 people are now dying per day from famine.
Here’s a challenge to you: how many of those dead people were Hamas?
We know the names, the genders, the ages, the locations of where they were killed. So if this is indeed a “war on Hamas”, and if Israel can target and kill Iranian scientists in the beds, if it can target and kill Palestinian reporters in their tents, then they must know exactly who they are killing.
So how many Hamas terrorists did they kill last week? Give me that number. Give me their names.
NOBODY SUPPORTS HAMAS. AND NOBODY SUPPORTS TERRORISM.
We oppose the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank. We oppose the extermination of the Palestinian people.
By this logic, nothing is happening under Trump as well. So electing him doesn’t matter then.
What do you expect Trump to do?
More like FDR refusing to condemn the Holocaust, arguing that Germany has a right to defend itself, and giving Germany billions of dollars to fund their extermination camps.
Yeah he did. He condoned it. He funded it. He supported it.
No, pro-PALESTINIAN views. The people were yelling and upset about the children.
Do you think without US aid, Israel would just go without that weaponry?
Or would they, instead, spend some of their own child-sniper-drone funds and white phosphorous kitty on it, maybe?
This is the thing that is obviously, factually true about terror groups in general, that so damn many people ignore. I say ignore because they must know its true, but yet they don’t ACT like its true.
If Israel really wanted peace they would find a way to make the Palestinians’ lives better, not worse. And make sure that everyone knew they did it.
Would there still be terrorists? Yes. But a whole lot fewer of them.
And because we live in a world where everything has to be said, lest one is accused of something, of course I don’t support Hamas, what they did was unconscionable, etc. etc. But that doesn’t give Israel a free pass to do whatever it likes, no matter how wrong.
…so I should talk about this.
Israel assassinated in a targeted strike five journalists from Al Jazeera last night, including Anas al-Sharif.
I had been following Anas al-Sharif. He was one of a number of Palestinians living in Gaza that I’ve followed and had just been reading a post from him when news came out that he had been killed.
And then I saw his body. You don’t seek this stuff out. I only saw it for a second. But sometimes its unavoidable, especially when something like this happens. His face was melted. He had no arms.
People are calling this the first ever live-streamed g_______. The first where you get to know everybody’s name, follow them as they do mundane, every day things like catch up with friends, go to work, do their jobs, be loved by family, and watch as they die, one by one in brutal, horrible ways.
You end up following a lot of silent accounts. Just another dystopian thing about this particular “war.”
Have no doubt: this was a deliberate-targeted assassination. Just like many others of journalists, doctors, nurses, aid workers, police, academics. Anas al-Sharif even had the opportunity to talk about the threats to his life live on camera before he was killed.
Here is the video that put him on the “hit-list” a few weeks ago: he breaks down in tears as a woman collapses from hunger in front of him.
Here is the Committee for the Protection of Journalists calling for his protection a couple of weeks ago.
Here is (Facebook link) Avichay Adraee from the IDF making unsubstantiated claims about Anas Al-Sharif and basically threatening his life.
And here is the IDF gloating after his death. (Twiter link)
They claim (as always, without evidence) that he was “the head of a terrorist cell.” Part of a “Hamas Guided Rocket Platoon.” That he only “posed” as a journalist, as if we didn’t see him on television every single day.
Just like they accused other journalists of respectively been super-secret snipers, an engineer, a Captain, and intelligence operators. They are just openly lying because they know they will get away with it. And they’ve just done it again.
This only ends when people start putting pressure on politicians and saying this is no longer acceptable. It shouldn’t matter who is responsible for this, it shouldn’t matter if one side has contributed $56.8 million in individual, group and soft money donations as DrDeth kindly pointed out above, it doesn’t matter if you regard them as an “ally.” This needs to stop.
But I’m not optimistic. We are pretty much where I thought we would be. I said just over a year ago I think that the plan was to annex Gaza and the Palestinians living there would either be killed, forced out of the country, or have to live under a totalitarian regime for the rest of their lives. I still stand by this.
Because we aren’t going to stop them.
Unfortunately, you are 100% right on this: until the world puts public pressure on Qatar and Al Jazeera to stop supporting terrorism up to and including employing actual terrorist fighters, they will continue to do so. And that public pressure will never come, because as long as Al Jazeera puts out a couple of LGBT friendly articles a year (in their English language publication only, of course - they wouldn’t publish such “filth” in Arabic) there are hordes of gullible Westerners willing to buy whatever Qatari state propaganda they’re selling. Talk about pinkwashing!
And by the way, I can’t find the post now, but someone up thread (or maybe it was another one) refered to Israel providing LGBT rights to its citizens as “Pinkwashing”, which is disgustingly dismissive of the Israeli LGBT community, members of all of Israel’s religions, who fought for and won their rights.
Umm, having to fight the Israeli government for basic human rights isn’t the flex you want it to be.
…journalists are not legitimate targets, and Al Jazeera doesn’t employ actual terrorist fighters. Killing Al-Sharif was a warcrime.
Merely providing LGBT rights isn’t “pinkwashing”, and this isn’t the basis of pinkwashing claims.
The people of Gaza could get tired of the attacks, harassment, mis-government, aid-theft, etc, and throw off Hamas.
I am with you on all of that. But I am not gonna blame Biden for the killing.
The money comes from the people who support it.
Except the People in Palestine- at least some of them. And a few other nations have terrorist issues.
We agree on that.
Encourage Netanyahu rather than discourage as Biden did.
Per CBS new-
POLITICS
U.S. tells Israel, boost humanitarian aid to Gaza or risk losing weapons funding
October 15, 2024 / 5:24 PM EDT / AP
The Biden administration has warned Israel that it must increase the amount of humanitarian aid it is allowing into Gaza within the next 30 days or it could risk losing access to U.S. weapons funding.
Biden sent over 1Billion USD in aid to Gaza, and airdropped aid in.
Roosevelt made several public statements denouncing Nazi atrocities and the persecution of Jews, and he also signed a resolution in 1942 with other Allied leaders condemning the mass murder of Jews.
trump encouraged Netanyahu. and even suggest clearing gaza, not to mention cutting aid.
Nope. He opposed it, and CONGRESS funded it- but only to a small extent. You apparently didnt read my above fact that the IDF only got around 15% of it’s budget from the USA, and the biggest part of that is missile defense.
Not to mention Iran, which supplies most of the weapons for Hamas.
Oh and I believe now I have asked this like ten times in various threads- what- EXACTLY- could Biden do to end the violence in Gaza? Cut off aid? he did that- temporarily, which is all he could legally do. Not sign a huge budget bill as he had issues with one very small line item? Nope.
So before you put the blame on Joe Biden, just answer that.
Somehow, the US is able to find ways to impose sanctions on countries when we want to. But you can’t think of a single sanction that could have been imposed when it comes to Israel?
Maybe, if Biden wanted his popularity to drop even more- but what sanctions? Aid? Not legally. Economic? possible but political suicide. So, yeah Biden could have put temporary economic sanctions on Israel. They would be vastly unpopular, and perhaps not legal.
The International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) is legislation that authorizes the President to impose sanctions in response to threats to national security or the economy. Is Israel’s actions in Gaza any of those things? Would SCOTUS have overruled him? Would he be Impeached?
trump has a complaint Congress, Biden didnt.
According to the single largest left wing political streamer on Twitch, Hasan Piker, it’s very simple:
https://i.ibb.co/20kypSn1/hasan-goes-full-trump-solves-i-p-with-one-phone-call-v0-7qtv5oebk4gf1.jpg
I’m not sure what the non-fantasy answer is.
So, we know these people were real journalists, because we saw their reporting. Is there any evidence at all that they were also doing something other than journalism for Hamas?