…The IDF offered to do exactly that, in coordination with Mohammad Abu Selmia, and he rejected the offer and instead went on various media platforms to accuse Israel of heinous war crimes, using this offer as evidence. He also rejected the IDF’s offer of fuel earlier in the conflict when it could have run the incubators after power went out. Now I start to see why he would do such things, or lie about Hamas’s presence at the hospital.
Missed the Eta: well, they offered to take them to a Palestinian or Egyptian hospital rather than an Israeli one, but I think an offer to put the patients under Israeli control would be viewed with even more suspicion, not less.
I’m not a Jew. I don’t have any particular affiliations with a religious institution. Having said that I would point out that Hamas is a group that doesn’t believe in a Supreme Being. Their belief is in a being that requires human enforcement of religious tenants. They believe they will be rewarded for their efforts in this regard when they die.
The people of Gaza knew who they were voting into office. It was a terrorist group that didn’t recognize Israel. It was a group that could justify their behavior with the promise of afterlife martyr perks. It was a group that would fight a guerilla war with no concern for the people who voted for them.
The people of Gaza last voted for Hamas over a decade ago, when many of Gaza’s people weren’t born yet and many more were children. And those civilians who do support Hamas were fairly likely to have been raised under Hamas rule, with Hamas controlling the curriculum that UNRWA schools in Gaza used. If they are brainwashed by Hamas, that is understandable.
Hamas support among the Palestinian population is importan in that it is a challenge to the peace process. But it doesn’t justify targeting civilians.
To be clear, I don’t believe that Israel targets civilians. But if they did, “they supported Hamas” would not be a valid defense.
Ben Gvir and Netanyahu clashed over exactly this issue at a cabinet meeting (I saw these reports in Israeli media, this is the first English article I could find about the situation):
Don’t be like Ben Gvir. (Don’t be like Netanyahu either, but in this case he’s on the right side of the argument).
This is just a puzzling statement. Belief in a Supreme Being does not preclude the notion that said supreme being wishes its laws to be enforced through human agents. Hamas’s brand of Islam is no different in this regard from other forms of Islam or from Judaism and Christianity.
And as Babale points out, a large majority of the citizens of Gaza never voted for Hamas. (A majority weren’t alive or weren’t old enough to vote in the last election. And it’s not as if Hamas got 100% support among whose who voted.)
Sure, that’s a much better offer. Did that happen before the fuel ran out? I apologize for missing it.
Problems noted.
Could the IDF evacuate the those patients unable to walk/self-evacuate to a safer location?
Make the offer anyway - offer to take them to an Egyptian or Israeli hospital, their choice. (I don’t think any Palestinian hospital in Gaza would be safe).
Literally half the people in Gaza today weren’t even alive the last time an election was held. None of those 1 million + young Gazans had any say.
I’ll also point out that even among those old enough to vote back then not all of them voted for Hamas. So, please, stop painting every person in Gazan as a member of Hamas, or a Hamas supporter, or someone who voted for Hamas when that flies in the face of demographic facts.
Also, what @Babale said.
I’m sure that the video on youtube is cherry picked, but I’ve seen none of any Palestinians who are not hostile to Israel.
Hate to break up the happy glow from the hostage release, but we’ve got this guy Jonathan Pollard, a convicted spy who happily sold US secrets abroad and tried to justify it out of his love for Israel or something, coming up with this gem if my attempt to link to it works:
If not, it’s on his Xtwitter account and if someone could link to it many would probably want to see it.
Short summary: He thinks there should have been a declaration of an emergency and the families of the hostages silenced. Any not cooperating with being silent should be jailed.
Now, I don’t think this guy has any real power in Israel (I hope he doesn’t) but it’s the kind of words and video that just makes life more difficult for anyone who isn’t in a protected enclave of Israeli extremists.
I believe I hear a toilet flush in the background, which seems appropriate for Pollard.
There is a pretty big gap between “hostile to Israel” and “publicly favor removing every Jew from the middle east”. Hamas is the latter. I’m pretty sure that there are Palestinians in Gaza who don’t favor killing every Israeli, and Hamas targets are people who have acted to bring that about.
I mean, i really don’t like Saudi Arabia for all sorts of reasons. But I’m also zero risk to that nation and would be appalled if anyone tried to kill all the Saudis.
This has been brought up multiple times in this thread already. In my opinion, saying “Gaza voted for Hamas” should be banned as an argument in this thread.
Does that mean I can’t post, “Germans voted for Hitler?”
Perhaps I should rephrase that. I don’t believe a diplomatic solution is possible, what with old guys mostly hating Israel’s guts, and the younger people having been educated to hate Israel’s guts.
If so, then Israelis will be doomed to these sorts of attacks again and again. Without some sort of real peace agreement there will never be real security for Israel.
Remove the settlers from the West bank, forcibly move the Gazans to the West bank and give Gaza to the settlers.
The problem, of course, is that a Palestinian state in the West bank will want an army, so it will start all over again, with the Palestinians having an army.
Exactly. There must be a path to peace because there is no other alternative. As Golda Meir said,
That sounds like a terrible idea for a whole host of reasons. You’re never going to create a two state system that both sides view as legitimate in this way.
I’m not sure if that’s more than wishful thinking. At some point folks need to recognize that certain points of view aren’t mutually compatible. If a faction desires annihilation of another faction and acts in such a fashion that such desire seems real, I’m not sure how a lasting peace is created. Not all people or groups have the same set of underlying values. If Hamas had a nuclear, chemical or biological weapon, do you think they’d hesitate to use it?