Disingenuous argument and those who agree

tl; dr Posters on this board will argue disingenuously, and it actually works on people who should know better. Even if you point it out. This is infuriating.

Even worse, they will often deliberately antagonize you when they know you are upset, trying to make you slip up.


This has frustrated and even angered me for a long time. It’s bad enough in regular life, but even more annoying on this board. It goes like this:

Person A posts an argument, with premises, claims, reasoning, examples, so on. It may be passionate or use rhetorical questions or even snark, but it’s an argument.

A reply to it is completely disingenuous. It will just be snark or mockery. It will take something they said out of context. It will quote one part and interpret it in a way that directly contradicts other parts of the post.

And yet, they act like they’ve refuted the argument. Worse, they get agreement. People fall for it.

But what infuriates me here is that even pointing this out does nothing! They double down. And people still continue to agree. On a board about fighting ignorance, the disingenuous tactics so often work, and thus encourage more!

I get the fact that people often are reluctant to admit they don’t have a counter argument. I get that, if you are passionate about something, you might not notice that someone did that. But WHY THE FUCK does pointing it out only seem to make things worse?

When it happens to me, I’ll even say “Feel free to show me where I’m wrong.” It doesn’t happen. But people still act like it has. In the Pit, they will often resort to mockery and thus trying to piss me off even more.

I know that fucking tactic. You piss off someone even more because angrier people are more likely to make mistakes. And, no, you can’t say that they are also just angry, because they snark and mock and are generally calm.

It’s bad enough that I have to point this out to MAGA and conspiracy theorists, when I deal with them spreading misinformation. (You know, fighting ignorance.) But this board should not be a hotspot for these ignorance-based, disingenuous tactics.

We really should know better.

Any examples? Ya know, other than the threads this is so very clearly about and that do not feature you as Poster A?

You’re being disingenuous. I point this out all the fucking time. It’s obviously not something easily searchable, so finding those examples again is hard. Obviously the intent of this thread is to post to it when it happens in the future.

I’ve been saying stuff like this for YEARS now. I remember once it was about Bone when he was still a mod.

Yes, one thread (not sure why you put an s there) got me to thinking I need to finally make a Pit thread for this bullshit. But you are engaging in ad hominem to try and discredit me, rather than arguing against my actual argument. It’s just insinuation and snark.

Note I will not be watching this thread. I will let it fill up with its own examples. And I will add my own examples as I come to them. (And, to be fair, they are less common than they used to be.)

I’m not playing this bullshit game with y’all.

But here’s one example I remember: the pit thread about someone who was posting about how sexist a movie/tv show was when they hadn’t read it. Several posts defending the OP pulled this bullshit.

(I’ll edit in a link here.)

It’s also fairly common in the Israel/Hamas threads, which I’m not going to go back and reread. Because those are also infuriating.

Also, Beck does it a lot, (and likely has done it to you) but this is not a pit thread for her.

One of the hardest things for me to learn is that people could disagree with me without being insincere. If we remove that assumption of folks being disingenuous, your complaint is something like this:

A reply to an argument disagrees with it. I don’t think the disagreement is good. It interprets the argument in a way that I don’t. And then they act like they’ve made a good counterargument. Worse, they get agreement. People agree they’ve made a good counterargument.

But what infuriates me is that when I (or someone else I agree with) tell them they’re wrong, they don’t agree with me! They find my arguments that they’re wrong to be unconvincing. And other people find their arguments more convincing than mine. On a board about fighting ignorance, other people are more persuasive than me!

It’s not to say there aren’t deeply shitty arguments on this board, and the Beetlejuice character you mentioned in your last post is a master of making the deeply shitty arguments. But it’s very rarely because of disingenuous behavior, IMO. It’s usually because the person making the deeply shitty argument is genuinely making the best case they can for their beliefs.

Why do others believe deeply shitty arguments? Dude, this board isn’t exactly full of geniuses. And I include myself: sometimes I disagree with someone because I don’t fully understand what they’re saying, and I’m the one in the wrong.

This will go well.

Well, there’s the ATMB thread and the Troll thread

but sure, a third thread, maybe this time people will see.

They all laughed at you… THEY CALLED YOU MAD! BUT YOU’LL SHOW THEM! *YOU’LL SHOW THEM ALL!! BWAHAHAHAAA!

Well, that’s giving Tedious Lecture.

<mic drop>And I wouldn’t go into the bathroom in the next half hour, if you know what I mean!<\mic drop>

Stranger

Your mom get the wrong cheese again?

I’ve observed that we have a bit of Monty Python “Argument Clinic” going on. Which is to say, we love debating here and people sometimes take contrary positions as a default. There have been times I’ve posted a thought or opinion that instigated pushback and thought, if I had said the exact opposite there would have been people arguing with that too.

Which is true, and usually fine. There’s a whole range of opinions and sensibilities on the boards. It’s not too often that I feel personally attacked. But then, I don’t participate in Pit threads much.

Outrageous! It will absolutely NOT take something they said. I most strenuously object, my good sir.

What is thread about anyway? Complaining that people tend to disagree on a message board, especially if they disagree with your esteemed opinion, @BigT? Stupidest Pit thread ever.

I for one will say that I completely agree with BigT on this one, even if I also don’t know what it is about.

And I completely disagree even though I too haven’t the faintest idea what he’s on about. Cite?

Cite? Dang! You got me on this one! It’s a fair… frog?

No, the frog is really ugly.

To do otherwise would be completely disingenuous.
Feel free to show me where I’m wrong.

That’s just froggist.

The F-word is a racial slur.

Only if you spell it out: F-R-O-G!