Why is it if I say black guys are good at basketball, I am bombarded with accusations of racism? Where if I say Asian guys are good at math, that’s perfectly OK (from a racist standpoint. Well, at least I wouldn’t get the foaming at the mouth “racist” attacks by the masses). Is it that the racial tension between whites and blacks is much stronger than the racial tension between whites and Asians?
(I know I could have started two threads as “Black guys are good at basketball” and “Asian guys are good at math” to prove my point, but I figured that would be trolling.)
The racial tension between whites and blacks ought to be stronger than that between whites and Asians, IMHO.
Of course, to paint all whites and blacks and Asians with the same brush each, in order to answer the question, is also making matters worse.
But here’s a reason the tension ought to be worse between whites and blacks: the whole American slavery era. It’s hard to find anything else as bad in human history. Although it’s debatable what we should do about it now, I think there’s no way to escape the truth that an entire ethnic group suffered tremendous damage, such that a couple of generations of attempted corrective actions on the part of white Americans is not going to compensate for it enough to “level the playing field”.
Here’s another reason, also in my opinion: there are more problems of poverty and crime affecting blacks than Asians today in the US. Racial tension certainly appears to have played a part.
You started that Pit thread about black guys playing with their dick, didn’t you?
And you’re wondering why there’s more tension between whites and blacks?
The reason is quite simple: there are a million more negative stereotypes about blacks than there are for any other ethnic/racial group. Even the “positive” ones have a negative tinge to them. Implicit in the statement “Blacks are good athletes” is that they are too poor and under-educated to become anything more than jocks. Implicit in the statement “Blacks can sing and dance well” is that they are entertainers without depth and that they are unable or unwilling to pursue more intellectual activities. Implicit in the statement “Blacks are colorful and fervent” is that can’t control themselves emotionally. These implicit statements exist only because blacks are so stigmitized, and there is a huge cache of images and stereotypes to draw from on a subconscious level.
On the other hand, the implicit statements behind most “Asian” stereotypes? Implicit in “Asians excel in math” is that they work harder, they are bookish and nerdish, and that they are inherently more intelligent. These are positive statements used to hold up Asians as the “model minority”.
Thus, it’s much easier to see the racism in black stereotypes than it is in Asian ones, even though both are equally racist.
Saying “black guys are good at basketball” is saying by implication that all blacks are the same. Really, saying Asians are good at math is the same thing; shouldn’t be any less offensive.
Saying “blacks are generally better than whites” at basketball allows for exceptions, and is clearly true.
Do you really believe this? That somehow slavery elsewhere wasn’t as bad? That Hitler’s killings and Stalin’s “Terror Famine” (not to mention some of his other tricks) aren’t worse?
[And could I request that this not be construed as any sort of defense of slavery?]
China TODAY apparently still has slavery. Slavery is a horrible thing, but has happened in other countries, and may still be happening today.
Throughout history, every race have been slaves at some point in time.
Xema. You need to talk face to face with Rep. John Lewis. He will set you set straight that enslaving a people is far worse than killing them. Once you are dead, your suffering is over. But slavery continues your whole lifetime and into the next generations. Slavery is about repeatedly killing a person’s mind.
Since you’re being obtuse about it, add the almost three hundred years from 1492 to 1776 to the ninety already mentioned. Hell, if you want, add the hundred and forty years since the abolishment of slavery 'cause our civil rights record isn’t and wasn’t the best it could have been. And blame America for every second of it.
Now, can you please tell me how those five hundred years (half a millennium)of slavery are somehow worse than the three or four millennia that preceded it?
The US as a nation, as a soverign government, did not exist until 1776. That is correct. But the people–including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin…and guess what?! thousands of slaves–existed prior to 1776!
Why did Aesiron feel the need to reduce American slavery to a mere 90 years when the institution, as practiced on this continent, actually lasted two centuries and a half ? Black Americans–and this entire country–were impacted not by a 90-year-old thing but a 250-year-old thing. IMHO, he out of his way to belittle something just to make his point. Technical correct, but WRONG nonetheless.
I’m being obtuse? Are you telling me that American history begins at the end of the American Revolution and everything before that belongs to the British?
Are you telling me that when someone speaks of American slavery, they aren’t talking about a centuries-long period of time, but rather something that lasted less than a century? This makes sense to you?
I never said that American slavery was the worse thing in human history…Napier did. I don’t agree with him/her, because I think world history is full of tales of woe (but nor do I think those other historical tales of woe mitigate the impact that slavery has had on this country ). However, I don’t agree that you have to be inaccurate to make your point. That doesn’t make me obtuse: that makes me one interested in fighting ignorance.
You were bold enough to put a length of time to the slavery…no one required you to do that. Instead of creating a nonsensical slippery slope to justify the arbitrariness of your figure, just admit that 90 years is the glaring understatement that it is and move on. Doing otherwise only takes away from the argument you were directing at Napier. It also makes you look like you don’t know just how bad American slavery was, a perception that is at the root of Napier’s point.
I’m not a historian but I do enjoy reading about it so I’m well aware of the impact of slavery on the American psyche. It was a massive crime perpetrated against humanity and is something that should never be forgotten.
My point in giving it a ninety year time frame was to further illustrate how ludicrous the statement by **Napier ** was. Yes, I could have included the history before the Declaration of Independence was put into effect but I felt it better to only include that period of time pertaining to America as a sovereign nation since its policies beforehand were wholly British.
[Straight Dope hijack]
Actually, the “American character” had its roots long before the events of 1763-1776 and the various legislatures of the American colonies had fairly broad powers to establish and regulate slavery, so attempting to foist off all pre-independence slavery onto the British is, at best, naive and is possibly disingenuous.
[ /hijack ]
>Do you really believe this? That somehow slavery elsewhere wasn’t as bad? That Hitler’s killings and Stalin’s “Terror Famine” (not to mention some of his other tricks) aren’t worse?
What I said was that it’s hard to find something worse. I think the “American slavery era” at least included the Cavaliers using slaves in the mid 1600’s and, obviously, slavery in the Confederacy - spanning 200 or even 250 years. This is clearly “American” before and after it was in a country called the “United States”. It was systematized over a longer time, over more geography, and involving both more deaths and more disrupted lives than the Holocaust - so I think arguably the Holocaust was not “something worse”. IIRC both Manchuria and Russia lost something like 25,000,000 in what became World War II, and some estimates of the slave trade’s death count are below that (but I read one estimate of 350,000,000!), but still I bet more Manchurians and Russians had fairly intact lives than did Africans in the Americas. And as it happens I’m in the middle of “The Gulag Archipelago” right now, and recently read “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” - and I’m not getting the feeling that these episodes were worse.
If you want a sense of how long the echos of slavery have sounded, read Dan Lacy’s book “The White Use of Blacks in America”.
So, can somebody demonstrate an easy time of finding something worse?
So if someone makes any kind of overly broad statement about “black people”, even if the statement is a complimentary one, they are automatically a racist?
I don’t buy this one for a second. Indeed, it is this very kind of thinking that causes innocent statements to be taken entirely out of their context and causes charges of racism to be leveled at people who don’t deserve it.