I’m in the process of redoing some cabinets. The solid wood fronts (doors and “boxes” around the doors) are all sanded, stained, and poly’d. They look good, if I do say so myself.
Some of the end panels are MDF with crappy paper veneer (NOT wood, just a decal of wood). So I got myself some nice real wood veneer and have cut it to fit. Now I need to apply them and I need a little help:
Some of the existing veneers are in very good shape, and seem to adhere very well. I am planning to leave these and apply the good stuff right over them.
Some of the veneers are not in good shape, with peeling sections. I thought these would be easy to peel off, but no such luck. As I work at them, I just keep making smaller pieces if you know what I mean.
So here’s the question: What’s a good way to remove these without harming the underlying MDF? I have considered solvents or a heat gun, but since MDF is made of glue, I am worried about harming it. I also don’t know if MDF will mind being sanded, but that’s another option.
Another idea I had was to apply a coat of really heavy paint, like Rustoleum enamel* and assume that wold seal it all up and provide a surface. But then I wold have MDF>Paper veneer>Paint>Wood veneer, and that seems like a lot of layers.
Thoughts? Warnings? Offers to come do it for me?
*I am in love with this stuff. It makes a really thick coat, wears like iron, and seems impervious to everything.
if you stick your veneer to paper veneer which is failing then your veneer wouldn’t be holding as good as it should.
sanding will remove creating dust.
also scraping (scrapers are plastic like a credit card thickness or metal scrapers) you aren’t removing any wood just the loose surface (scraper could be held perpendicular to the wood). this makes less dust.
For starters I would put aside the veneer you have bought. Veneering is something to be done on a table in a shop. Applying it in situ to a crappy as all hell substrate (which is what you have) is a recipe for frustration, struggle and disappointment. As a professional this is never route I would choose.
Kitchen cabinet ends either have finished gables on the box or use an additional finished panel that is fastened to the cabinet called variously a cover panel, end panel, plant-on or gable. I assume you have the former or else we would be just replacing the cover panels outright. You can still fix this however by adding cover panels to the existing cabinet. Attaching a half inch or thicker finished panel to an existing cabinet is relatively painless with two clamps and 4 screws of appropriate length screwed from the inside of the box into the panel.
Are these face frame cabinets or ‘Euro’ style frameless cabinets with full overlay concealed hinges? If face frame you will need to make the panel the same depth and be careful to create a very good joint. If frameless you make the panel deeper than the cabinet so it sticks out to the depth of the door like this
You can make the cover panel from veneered panel milled to size, band the edge, stain and finish. You may be able to find pre made panels that match already. Ikea, Home Depot both stock pre-finished cabinet cover panels, most cities will have cabinet stores that offer of the shelf panels as well. Thickness matters, the thicker the easier to work with, less warping, more purchase for screws, less chance of screwing through the finished side. If you are forced to go with something less than half an inch, gluing and clamping is going to be necessary.
Are you doing a new counter top? If not you will want to make sure you have enough over hang for an end /cover panel. You may have to resort to thin material which will make things more difficult.
assuming you MUST do it in-situ and not take FluffyBob’s advice above
yeah, I think your only option is sanding
Get a power sander. Not an orbital, but like a rotating one. Do they even have rotating drum sanders like they do with polishers?
The obvious “issue” everyone will site is that a power sander is too powerful and you won’t be able to get a smooth finish, but I recently did that on drywall on a project I had to do real quick and it turned out pretty good. Though, note, this was in a crappy old apartment where there’s the re-spackled marks of old screws and nails and shit everywhere, so it’s a comparative “pretty good”
The thick paint idea may work, too, though it would be weird.
Honestly, I’d just replace the doors.
Though, if the old veneer is flaking off when you try to scrape it off, isn’t there an attachment for that vibratory dremel thingy* that’s just a thin blade specifically so you can cut into a groove in a small, flat area, so as to remove adhesives that are keeping flat things on other flat things? Couldn’t you just use that to slowly cut under the veneer in lines much more quickly and pull it off where you cut it in sections like that?
*I can’t remember what it’s called. The one that just twists back and forth slightly, really rapidly.
Pfff… yet another example of where I know a lot about some skill or art or whatever but I can’t remember the damn terminology
EdwinAmi I think the name you are looking for is MultiMaster? As you say the spatula-type attachment on the left is great for removing veneers. What the OP is dealing with is just a paper photo veneer though and it is probably too fine for such a thing.
An orbital sander will work to take the paper veneer off, it wont be too aggressive. Light pressure. It will probably take quite a while actually. I would start with 80 or 60 grit and change the sandpaper as necessary. Once you get down to the wood, finish up with 100 grit. Are you sure the substrate is MDF? Particle board is more typical, but either will accept a veneer. I still think it will be a lot of work with many opportunities for things to go way south.
Veneer is usually applied (well, according to Bob Villa) by appling the glue to the work, then resting the veneer on thin dowels until perfectly aligned.
The dowels and then removed the veneer drops onto the glue.
If you can’t find a pre-finished end panel, maybe a chunk of 1/4 - 1/2" hardwood plywood, finished as you are planning for the doors?
Find a millwork shop and have them cut the plywood (unless you have a table or cabinet saw with a huge table and very good controls) so the edges are perfectly straight and parallel.
I would guess the current end panels are very thin melamine rather than paper, it’s usually applied with hot met glue and you should be able to de glue using a hot air gun, another option to use a clothing iron and apply some heat to glue it back properly.
If the veneer is fluid absorbing, then you can get a solvent onto it . Must gums and glues will will soften up with a solvent , like white spirits ( “mineral turpentine” or gasoline )…
Thanks everyone for the thoughts. A few odds & ends:
What I am trying to veneer is just the outside ends of the cabinets. Everything else is real, solid wood and refinish-able. I’m a little perplexed as to why what seem to have been pretty nice cabinets were built with cheap end panels. The construction seems to be a frame of solid oak with doors on the front and the aforementioned end panels.
Fluffybob: The framing sits 1/8 proud of the panels, and the veneer is 1/64, so the test pieces I have cut sit quite nicely in this recess, and while I haven’t applied any yet, they look like it will be hard to tell that they are a veneer. Can I ask why you think this isn’t going to work?
What you have is a builder upgrade (assuming house built in a tract (subdivision).
The builder starts with the cheap stuff (incredibly cheap in some, actually nice in high-end) and offers “upgrades” - a better grade of carpet, custom paint, nicer, nicest, incredibly expensive kitchen cabinets.
I’m guessing somebody went for the upgrade to “real frames/doors/drawers” without going from “mdf box” to “wood box”.
I’m living in a 1979 tract - somebody spent a fortune (pool and spa with solar heat and gas heat, new kitchen, all kinds of cabels, and even a LAN/WAN router in the garage and bars on windows, etc.
They realy could have put in decent carpet - this is disgusting. Any carpet folks want to be really, really generous?
I am not saying it cant be done, just that there is a lot the can go wrong and you have more of a mess to fix if it does. I would worry about a number of issues, applying the veneer on a vertical surface for one thing. How do you get the veneer aligned and keep it that way? Even on a horizontal surface you would usually apply the veneer over sized and trim after. What kind of adhesive are you using? It would be extremely difficult with a contact adhesive. Proper veneer glue is pretty specialized stuff. With a tacky heat activated veneer glue you could do it but the chances of the veneer moving while you iron it are very high. Veneer should be attached to a clean substrate and it is going to be a struggle to get this substrate clean. Assuming you can get the veneer applied to satisfactory standards you still have to prep and apply the finish in place.
If I were doing this I know from experience it probably will not work out the first time. Just much easier to apply a panel that you can dry fit to get it perfect and finish in a convenient workspace.
