A responsible pet owner has control of his pet at all times. No dog under those conditions has ever harmed anyone.
Dangerous to other dogs, perhaps. Pit Bulls have been bred to be non-aggressive toward humans.
Contrapuntal
I have always chosen the canine side of any dog discussion that has appeared on this board over the years. I was just trying to stress that it can be the breeder as well as the owner who can produce a very screwed-up dog.
Around my neighborhood there is one Pit Bull terrier and I’ll agree that he is not the rabid, wild dog that the media always likes to portray them.
Read this article to get a sense of just what it takes to turn a Pit Bull into a fighter. Suffice it to say, it’s all about the training.
Is a Rottweiller a vicious breed? Read this thread about a dog who suffered terrible abuse and still hasn’t a mean bone in his body. Including the ones fractured at the hands of some worthless asshole.
Well DMX found Jesus while Rough Riding, what do you expect?
Sure, and there is no gun crime in England because guns are outlawed. There are no murders in this country because murder is illegal. No one ever exceeds the speed limit either. :rolleyes:
Bolded text added by moi.
Um, what?
Isn’t it fair to say that responsible, alert and level-headed gun owners never kill people with their guns? I mean, I’m sure it’s happened, but the point is that the gun can’t kill anyone without human supervision, and that responsible gun owners are not criminals. That’s what Contrapuntal is trying to say about pitbulls: the ones with responsible owners don’t hurt people.
I’m not sure of your point. No responsible gun owner commits gun crime. It isn’t about the gun, it’s about the gun owner. Like with dogs.
I said nothing about laws, or illegality. I did not suggest that laws against dangerous dogs prevented dangerous dog activity, merely that regardless of some alleged genetic proclivity, pets who are under the control of their owners do no harm, and that responsible owners always are in control of their pets.
Here’s a dog that is very large, athletic, protective, assertive, powerful, and steadfast. Ever hear of one of them causing harm to other animals or people? Some time ago it was the German Shepherd Dog, then the Rottweiller. Now the Pit Bull is the dog du jour. Read the link I provided that show just what it takes to turn a dog into a vicious killer.
Brilliant use of rolleyes smiley, though. Top drawer arguing! Well played.
Anthrax is so '90s. And just because they did a song with Public Enemy is no reason to sully their good names. 
You are making an abolute statement here, that is what I was addressing.
Your statements are patently false. It is entirely possible for an animal who is under control to nevertheless cause harm to another and responsible owners may not always be able to maintain control of their pets.
My examples may not have been the most ideal, but I was expressing the absurdity of the absolute in the context of other situations.
Fighting pit bulls are bred to be dangerous toward small animals–which may be other dogs, cats, squirrels, or human children. It’s not a coincidence that so many dog deaths in the US involve pit bulls and kids. The pit who would never harm an adult doesn’t see a child as off-limits: children trigger their inbred kill instinct.
And yes, a responsible pet owner has control of her pet at all times. That, unfortunately, is a truism, not a policy recommendation. By definition if you don’t have control of your pet, you’re not responsible. Public policy, IMO, should be based on how people actually behave, not how they would behave if they were perfect.
Daniel
That’s the real problem - those dangerous people are breeding dogs, and everyone knows it.
There I fixed that for you.
I am getting really tired of the pit bull debate. It is very much how the dogs are raised. Many many pit bulls and “pit bull types” never bite anyone or anything. You only hear about the ones who do. It is only because of their potential to cause injury that they are accused of being dangerous dogs, not because they are always dangerous.
Isn’t this supposed to be a “DMX is he or isn’t he an asshole” debate?
There, I fixed that for you.
There are these things called evolution and natural selection, you may have heard of them.
If you say that the Earth is 6000 years old, most people will laugh at you. The idea that there can be no such thing as a dangerous breed of dog deserves the same response.
No, because that’s no fun-- DMX is obviously an asshole, which is apparent from listening to his music. Finding out he’s an abusive dog owner just confirms what I already surmised about him. No, arguing about pit bulls is much more contentious, and therefore much more fun.
Pit bulls are potentially dangerous dogs. Some people encourage and enhance that potential; some people don’t know how to train them and inadvertantly create hazards. But the dogs are not inherently vicious. Even the aggressive ones I’ve encountered at the shelter basically loved people and just wanted to bond with someone who would be firm but loving towards them. It’s a shame when dogs with that much good potential are warped and/or neglected into being killers. The blame lies solidly with the owners, though, not with the breed.
And I fixed that for you. Please don’t alter people’s words within attributed quote tags. If you want to change a quote to make a point, remove the attribution. Thanks.
There, I fixed that for you.
It’s bad form to modify someone elses quotes while still in their quote box. But since you actually said the above, but meant for another poster, I’ll leave your quote box. 
Semantics. I said no such thing as “no such thing”. Saying a breed is dangerous is saying they are always dangerous. I am saying they are only potentially dangerous and the potential is higher in the wrong hands, that is not the same thing as saying every member of a certain breed is dangerous.
It all depends on how you look at it. They are a potentially dangerous breed but they are not inherently dangerous. The same could be said for any breed of dog. Chihuahua’s are potentially dangerous, Labrador’s are potentially dangerous, Yorkie’s are potentially dangerous. Any dog could bite. Any dog bite could kill or main a human. People need to use common sense around dogs. You never leave young children alone and unsupervised with any dog. Yorkies have killed! Cocker spaniels have killed!
We can love our pets but we have to remember that they’re all inherently animals and potentially dangerous. You can’t be 100% sure how an animal will act in a given situation. Take responsibility, train it, supervise it and you lower the risk of it being dangerous to anyone or anything but there is always some risk, some potential risk. People that cannot or will not be responsible for reducing this risks should not own the animal, whether it be a pit bull or cocker spaniel.
I don’t see what evolution and natural selection have to do with this discussion. The domestic dog is not a natural species. It didn’t evolve, there was no natural selection, it was adapted. All the various breeds of domestic dogs were manipulated by man. They were bred for certain physical features and traits. Some were bred to be helpful to hunters by retrieving, pointing or flushing prey, some were bred to guard sheep (and be dangerous to predators), some were bred to guard homes (and be dangerous to people with ill intent), some were bred to fight bulls, some were bred to fight lions, some were bred just to look cute and some were bred to fight other dogs. The pit bull and similar breeds were bred to fight other dogs but they need to be able to be handled and controlled by people. They were not bred to be dangerous to people. However their physical traits which make them ideal fighters of other dogs, also gives them more potential to cause serious injury to any living creature but it does not mean that that was their intended purpose.
The numbers of “pit bull” attacks are also high because it’s a popular “breed”. Most of the time they’re mixes but there’s a heck of a lot of them. Most of the pit bull attacks you hear about are dogs that routinely run loose or are kept chained or fenced all the time and really don’t get a lot of socialization. Those things are the fault of the owner. Those attacks could have been prevented had the owners been more responsible or just not owned dogs that they couldn’t be bothered to be responsible for.
Banning or eliminating a breed and several other breeds like it and all the possible mixes of all those breeds is impractical and is not going to stop the idiot owners and breeders who are the heart of the problem and who will just find another breed to exploit or neglect to the breed’s detriment.
I’m old enough to remember a few other Dangerous Dogs Du Jour, (GSD’s, Dobies, Rotties) the answer is always the same, the potential danger of the animal and responsibility for it lies with the owners and breeders.
As I said I’m tired of this debate. I was once on the other side of it several years ago when I thought it was just the breed, until I got to know the breed. But people are going to believe what they’re going to believe and repeatedly rehashing this same debate with the same people who have dug their heels in on their position just goes nowhere.
I’m also tired of every single thread that even mentions a pit bull devolving into this debate. The thread was about an asshole who neglected his dogs, they didn’t attack anyone! If he neglected his 13 yorki-poos this thread would be all about what an asshole that guy is, but no they were pit bulls so most of it is “pit bulls are dangerous child-eating killers!” I swear, someone could post that a pit bull saved a baby, a litter of kittens and a blind, paraplegic, elderly midget woman from a burning building and then pissed on the fire and put it out and someone would respond that the dog only pulled them from the fire because it prefers it’s meat raw and it was just a matter of time until it ate them and we need to ban those damn dangerous dogs!
I have other more urgent things to do now, have fun those of you who can’t let go.
So it’s safe to assume that if I breed toy poodles to fight, over time (200,000 years or so), the 200,001 toy poodle raised in a good home will be naturally violent?
I agree that probably, in most cases, when a Pit Bull attacks a child it is because he perceives it to be a prey animal.
I am honestly confused. I don’t know what public policy has to do with the quote of mine you cited. I am not advocating any particular public policy. I am placing the blame for bad dog behavior where it belongs, on the owner.
My dogs are either in the house, in the car (crated), on a leash, or in my backyard, which is securely fenced. I’m not perfect, but it is not particularly difficult to follow those guidelines. In most of the cases reported by the media where a Pit Bull has attacked a human, the dogs were running free, or were left alone with a small child. How hard is it to prevent that?
Please cite one example of a dog harming a human while under the control of its owner. I trust we can exclude police dogs, military dogs, etc.
I refer you to my response to **Lefty **above. What is so difficult about controlling your pet? Now granted, someone could break into my house, incapacitate me, and release my dogs. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about? I will gladly amend my statement to "responsible pet owners who are not incapacitated … "
So you’re saying that no dog on a leash has every successfully attacked someone?
No dog locked in it’s own fenced in back yard has ever harmed anyone?
I hardly think that I need to provide cites to refute such a wild absolutist claim as yours.
I doubt it would take anywhere near that long. If you pick the most aggressive pups from each litter for further breeding, you are going to end up with dogs that have a very high level of aggression. Not every dog will be aggressive, but as a population, they will be far more aggressive than the average mutt. Look at what happens when people do stupid things like cross-breeding wolves and dogs. The results are unpredictable and dangerous.
The ASPCA has an informative web page on pit bulls:
Properly socialized, trained, and handled, most can be good pets. The problem is that even if you exclude people like dog fighters and idiots who want a “mean dog”, many dog owners are incapable or unwilling to properly train and handle their dogs. It may not be the dog’s fault, but it is a predictable outcome. The result is that many dogs are a danger to humans and other animals. The consequences are worse when the dog is from a breed that is physically powerful and has aggressive tendencies.
We have many laws and regulations because some people are stupid or willfully ignorant, and left to their own devices, will do things that create serious hazards for the rest of us.
To address the original topic, I’d like to see DMX treated the same way as he has treated his dogs. Let him spend a year outside, chained to a post, with minimal food and water.