Hi, this is just a comment on SDSTAFF Doug’s answer to the question of whether there are any animals besides humans that commit suicide - there was a story on the AP newswire about sheep commiting suicide in Turkey. 1500 sheep that were apparently grazing, leaped off a cliff and started falling in droves until 450 eventually died while the rest fell on top of them. If this story is true (I believe AP checks its facts, for the most part), this is one of the weirdest things I have ever heard of. Wouldn’t this classify as abberant behavior and what do you think the cause would be? These sheep were healthy animals and were in no danger from predators, so do you think there might be a scientific explanation for all this? I’d appreciate any comments you might have. Thanks!
I think the scientific explanation is that sheep are dumb. One sheep got spooked, and ran. It wasn’t watching where it was going, and went over a cliff. The next sheep saw him running, and thought, hey, maybe that’s a good idea, and followed. Then the third sheep saw him, and said, what the heck, if two other sheep are doing something, I might as well, too. Then the fourth one thought, y’know, three out of three sheep can’t be wrong. And so forth.
Many people have had a pet that stopped eating. My family once had an indoor cat who was old and hyperthyroidic but otherwise healthy, who gradually stopped eating over a period of many months. You’d have to coax her and monitor her bowl to make sure she actually ate something, or the other cats would eat her food; eventually she had to be hand-fed. Towards the end, she started hiding herself away in unusual nooks and crannies around the house. She wasn’t in any apparent pain, but we couldn’t be absolutely sure she wasn’t, either. She continued to waste away and finally was euthanized at the vet’s. 
Many wild animals are known to abruptly leave their pack or family group when they get very old or ill. They’ll just steal away, presumably to die by predation or starvation. There can be sound evolutionary reasons for such behavior; by isolating themselves from their kind in their last day(s), they can avoid further burdening their group to provide food and protection, and avoid attracting the attentions of predators to them.
When an animal (whether wild or a beloved pet) acts this way, its mentalite will necessarily remain mysterious and unarticulated to us, but it’s extremely tempting to see in it some evidence of either fatalistic acceptance, altruism and love for its family, depression, or a will to disappear and die.
Here’s a link to the column. I think Chronos is right - I can’t find the story on CNN, but I remember it.
Lemmings?
No. Lemmings do not commit suicide.
A friend of mine told me of his daughter’s college roomie- the girl is from a bipolar-Mom-dominated household & is staying with my friend & family for the summer-
she was playing with my friend’s dog & he remarked she should get a dog,
she replied that she that as a child, she’d had four which all died within a year-
one ate cans & died
one wasted away of some illness
two ran in front of cars
I’ve heard of similar tales- damn if I don’t think the last two were suicides
Btw, I’ve also heard some recent lore about a bridge that when people walk their dogs across, at a certain spot, a lot of dogs suddenly break free & leap over the edge to their deaths.
Sheep may be dumb by human standards, but 1500 of them at the same time? There had to be a least one or two who by the time 300 of them fell to their death had to at least think maybe this was not a good idea for the propagation of their species, especially after hearing all the bleating and moaning at the bottom of the cliff (I don’t think sheep remain silent whilst sailing through the air and landing, although I could be wrong). Another point to consider is that there has been no record of this ever happening before, and there are a lot of sheep all around the globe, not just in Turkey. Remember, too, these sheep were not being chased by anything that would put them in mortal danger- they apparently were grazing for lunch, for godsakes! One grazing sheep leading 1500 others into a frenzied death drop is still hard for me to fathom. Comments appreciated, thanks!
As opposed to 1500 sheep consciously deciding to kill themselves en masse? Please.
Herd animals tend to do things in herds; it’s part of their defense mechanism. As Chronos said, one got spooked for whatever reason. From there it dominoed until they all were running. They just happened to choose a bad direction to run. It doesn’t matter that there wasn’t an actual predator near them. In the individual sheep’s mind, the herd was moving so it must follow.
[QUOTE=The Scrivener]
Many wild animals are known to abruptly leave their pack or family group when they get very old or ill. They’ll just steal away, presumably to die by predation or starvation. There can be sound evolutionary reasons for such behavior; by isolating themselves from their kind in their last day(s), they can avoid further burdening their group to provide food and protection, and avoid attracting the attentions of predators to them.
[QUOTE]
BOLDING MINE
I see how it can benefit the herd/pack/troop, but I don’t see how it could be evolutionary. This is a behavioral trait that doesn’t manifest until after breeding age, and for traits to be selected for, don’t they have to impact breeding? For example, although females prefer males with full heads of hair, male pattern baldness ins’t really selected against because it typically occurs after breeding age.
I’m not trying to be a nitpicker, I just don’t see how this could be selected for or against.
[QUOTE=BMax]
[QUOTE=The Scrivener]
Many wild animals are known to abruptly leave their pack or family group when they get very old or ill. They’ll just steal away, presumably to die by predation or starvation. There can be sound evolutionary reasons for such behavior; by isolating themselves from their kind in their last day(s), they can avoid further burdening their group to provide food and protection, and avoid attracting the attentions of predators to them.
Natural selection does not have to be at the level of the individual, especially in herd animals. Behavior in non-breeding individuals that improves the odds of survival for the breeders carrying the same gene is also selected for.
I seem to recall long ago hearing on some TV program that whales sometimes beach themselves intentionally. Myth?
Define “intentionally” as applied to a whale.
The little bird called tom-tit, often found sitting on trees by rivers, are known to hurl themselves into the billowy wave from blighted affection or unrequited love.
It’s true: http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/webopera/song22.html
Dammit…and I always did love to picture the cute little things hurling themselves off a cliff.
I will continue to imagine it, regardless of what snopes says. So there. 
Whether they “mean to” or not, moths and flying insects that rush headlong into a bug zapper might as well be committing suicide.
Same thing works for possums crossing roads.
Trouble is, sheep are very dim.
By “intentionally”, I would presume that they meant sometning like “with some awareness of the result of such action”. Basically, what I was asking is would a whale have this degree of awareness?
Not to mention the melbas. Any idea how many melbas have to be run off cliffs to make one paket of melba toast?
I can hardly type, I am laughing so hard…